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Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

reuters.com

251–260 of 421 posts

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#251
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So please stop mistaking social-media activism for normal activism and using this to simplistically and superficially discredit non-dominant political opinions (and push dominant propaganda forward like "left and right all extremes are same" We should care who is dominant or who wants to be “right”. We should care to cultivate scientific consensus. Misinformed or incomplete science bound by some legal principles can…

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't talking about non-dominant scientific opinion (which is probably because it isn't yet really clear, even tho this too is a slippery slope and "scientific consensus" can be easily (said to be) "broken" by the power of money, cf climate change, cigarettes not long ago, cocaine, opioids...). I was talking about non-dominant political opinions like abolishing private property…

I guess we need to be sensible. Of course both will promote the method which gives them the best face when posing an argument. A technobureaucracy is not what we want, but we also don’t want things rules on the basis of pure democracy (populism), nor good intentions (many communists/marxists had good intentions).

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#252
There's bigger problem here: algorithmic manipulation of public opinion by well funded special interest groups (including some nation states). You can influence elections, legislation, cause riots, etc. with expensive but feasible campaigns of misdirection, fake news, provocation, and propaganda. Online activists are merely pawns; you need to look at the shadowy organizations behind them.

It so happens that the interests of these groups are well aligned with ad driven media companies that depend on manipulating their users into getting addicted with their content algorithmically. This means that provocative content wins over interesting niche content. It drives more users to engage more and come back for more. Bonus points if they get angry and frustrated, because they'll produce more content. Facebook, Twitter literally optimize for addictive quality because it drives their revenue. They want people to continuously check their feeds, have withdrawal symptoms when they don't, etc. It drives a lot of mindless content, constant streams of negativity, etc.

So, our current social media feeds, news media, etc. are highly susceptible to manipulation and the average media consumer is blissfully ignorant of the fact that they are being manipulated.

When it comes to science vs. a well funded special interest group or populist, the truth loses. Proclaiming the earth was flat was highly unpopular in the 15th century for religious reasons. Then we had enlightenment and it became established fact for a while. And now we have anti-vaxers, flat earthers, global warming deniers, christian fundamentalists, muslim fundamentalists, etc. being fed a constant stream of fake news, pseudo scientific bullshit, etc.

Mostly the people behind this manipulation are not even spreading truth but deliberately creating division. E.g. the Russians will happily troll all sides in a debate if it creates conflict. Whether it's e.g. the birther movement, the Clinton email scandal, etc. does not matter. It's not about spreading truth. Whatever gets republicans fuming or liberals protesting will do. It's all about division. Divide and conquer. Distorting the truth is a means to an end. As Trump has demonstrated, you can always deflect undesired attention by creating a bigger scandal. Modern people are like gold fish when it comes to attention spans. People getting to curious about his taxes? No problem, just insult women, blame Obama for whatever, or just plain yell something silly and surreal. It works. He's a great manipulator.

What I find interesting is that the Chinese and Russians seem to be more in control domestically of this and are less sensitive to external manipulation because they do all the manipulation themselves and filter out anything less aligned with the party line. So, China has no anti global warming movement and is moving full speed to fixing that problem for themselves by mass investments. They love science there because it empowers them and boosts their economy. Russia is a bit less successful, mainly because it has devolved into a kleptocracy. But yet, they keep a space program running, are producing scary weapons, etc.

IMHO the way out is introducing reputation into our feeds and countering hostile algorithms with friendly algorithms that take this into account. Also, ad business needs to die and we need to find alternate ways to reward quality news content. Fixing the incentives will fix the algorithms.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#253

If you think it's bad now, wait until "activists" have easy access to AI that most people can't distinguish from real humans. It's simple: Just pick a target of your ire, be it someone with ideological, political, lifestyle differences, or just someone you don't like, point your AI bot to it, and watch it harass your victim and anyone associated with them, until they lose their job, reputation, friends, family, etc.…

then it seems finally time for humanity to buck-up and grow a thick skin :D people let others get to them. they let them... people get offended and demotivated by anything, while it's in their own hands to keep their spirits up.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#254
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I struggled with RSI for a couple of years until I read John Sarno's "The Mind-Body Connection" on the recommendation of someone from HN. Sarno's thesis is that many chronic pain conditions (those without a clear physical mechanism, such as RSI or chronic back pain) are psychosomatic. I've had two RSI episodes in my life. The first one was similar to what you described and went away without any physical interventio…

1) Is it worse in your mouse hand? Don't overlook the mouse. 2) Is the KA2 wide enough for your shoulders? A split keyboard was the ticket for me, due to the set of my shoulders.

1) I use a keyboard-centric tiling window manager and am trying to avoid mouse use as much as possible. Maybe I’ll get a trackball.

2) It seems to be. I find it quite comfortable at least. I’ll keep an eye on it, thanks!

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I struggled with RSI for a couple of years until I read John Sarno's "The Mind-Body Connection" on the recommendation of someone from HN. Sarno's thesis is that many chronic pain conditions (those without a clear physical mechanism, such as RSI or chronic back pain) are psychosomatic. I've had two RSI episodes in my life. The first one was similar to what you described and went away without any physical interventio…

RSI from typing is typically caused by excessive wrist extension, though wrist pronation, ulnar deviation, etc. can also be bad. As can any other un-neutral body position held for a long time while working. The way to prevent it is to type with a posture such that all of the joints of the arm/hand (not to mention neck, shoulders, etc.) are in a neutral position with as little static load as possible. This can be acco…

Thanks, some good info.

> It is also helpful to type with a light, bouncy style, which can be helped by careful choice of keyswitches.

I use Cherry MX Brown and have a very light touch when typing now. I cringe anytime I see people hammer keyboards.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#256
This is sad. What's striking is this artificial mind / body, psychological / biological way of thinking.

All psychology stems from biology. Having a condition that may benefit from a psychological intervention doesn't mean it isn't real. It's like developers saying that you're not allowed to fix software bugs, because unless it's a hardware bug you're saying it's not real. Weird and counterproductive.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#257
post #246

Here is a simple rule. Any condition that can be improved with a placebo, has a possible psychological component that can either be a cause or a contributing factor. This is not to say that it is all in your head, or that all people with it have it due to psychological reasons. But some of the people have at least some of their symptoms worsened by psychological factors. Anyone who finds this controversial has psycho…

Curious, if put in practice, what is the reference group for the placebo group?

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#258
post #31

Another field where science is on a collision course with online (and offline) activists is genetics. As we decode and understand more of the genome, it is possible that our genes affect more of our behavior than what the partisans of tabula rasa hold for truth. And unless the political climate evolves, in a power struggle between activists and science, I wouldn't bet on the scientists.

I remember a famous French geneticist telling something along these lines about "nature vs nurture", or the influence of genes on behaviour, intelligence, etc: "debating on the greater importance of genes vs nurture is like asking of a winning motorcycle racer what's most important to win the race, the bike or the pilot. In any case, you know that neither the bike alone, nor the pilot alone would win".

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#259
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Sarno's theory is that such pain is indeed caused by physical mechanisms ... which are triggered by psychological mechanisms. Such things are common, like a blush to the cheeks, hair on your arm raised by fright, erections and other sexual responses, etc. He was also clear that this is not always the case, and that direct physical causes should be looked for by a specialist before pursuing psychological remedies…

You mean that stress can play a factor in RSI? I don't think that's in any way controversial, but that doesn't make it in any way less real, or less physical. Although in the case of RSI, there are a lot more factors than that: bad posture, lack of exercise, and most importantly of course repetitive motions that very slowly build up strain on surrounding tissue, wrists, shoulders, back, etc.

Psychological IS physical. Full stop.

Re: Online activists are silencing us, scientists say

#260
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of normalizing outrage and harassment, why not say the opposite: 'To be on twitter you should treat others with respect, and if you don't then you shouldn't on there' Obviously that's not representative of Twitter right now, but why can't it be?

Pretending that reality is something else is rarely helpful. Sure we could, but thats not the situation we are in. Hypothesizing doesnt change the current situation. The parent made an appropriate comment in my opinion. Twitter as it exists today is in the public sphere, it is not your living room. You are shouting something throughout the net and invite everyone to share their opinion on what you said. We should all…

> Pretending that reality is something else is rarely helpful

It's not that I'm pretending that's not what reality is. I understand exactly what that reality is, and I don't like that reality, which is why I pointed out a way to think about reality in a different way, with the idea that if we each individually do it, then we change as a whole.

> Make up your own platform with your own user guidelines

You suggest just giving up and starting over. Why? Why can't we expect better of people? Are we so doomed to just be dicks to each other online?

> If you use twitter as it exists today, you better have a thick skin

You're right, but it doesn't have to be this way.

Maybe I'm naive, but change starts 1 individual at a time. You can't go on Twitter and say "ok guys we're gonna be nice now", but I can convince one person, and it's a cascading effect.

Who knows, maybe it's just human nature and the only way we will be nice to each other is if we are forced to at gunpoint. I prefer to be a bit naive over being a pessimist.

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