Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#251

Post by furst » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

the_trapper wrote: post #194

I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. I can't think of a single market segment where Google and Amazon lack effective competition. Facebook is already bleeding users, and how would you break up a social media company in an impactful way anyhow? Facebook's ventures outside of social media aren't even close to being monopolies.

Facebook owns Instagram, Whatsapp, and dozens other platforms. Sure, Facebook proper is bleeding users, but the platform gaining the most users right now is Instagram, which is still Facebook.

Google would be fairly easy to break up among Alphabet subsidiaries, and Amazon could be split among Amazon.com, AWS, and Whole Foods.

She actually gets fairly specific about what she her plan is if you actually read the medium article linked in the first paragraph of the OP.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#252

Post by wybiral » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #181

mabbo wrote: post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

Anti-competition law and it's interpretation has changed drastically in the US after Robert Bork's book 'The Antitrust Paradox' (1978). Reagan administration used it as their bible.

Laws are fluid and can change back to respond to new situations.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#253

Post by moate » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #196

oceanstone wrote: post #178

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I also see Elizabeth Warren has created a set of powerful enemies way too early that will do much to stop her from becoming America's first woman president. If you wanna do something like this wait until you are in office. These are not issues that your average American cares about.

>>These are not issues that your average American cares about.

Why not? I think there are wings of both the major parties that feel that there is an "us vs the big bad corporations". Both sides feel there are inherent flaws with the current economics, but would solve it in very different ways.

Employment and how multinationals run themselves are things many people care about. They just can't agree on how to fix it.

That said, I don't disagree that pissing off a group of megacorps this early in the race seems like it's just begging for powerful enemies. But it also seems like it's possible this becomes a point that many of the primary candidates pick up. In that case, it basically becomes a moot point since there's no candidate for the pro-FAANG lobby to back in the field that will align closer with their goals. And when it the game becomes Vs. Trump, everything changes.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#254

Post by jpadkins » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

endofcapital wrote: post #2

Here we go, buckle up. With the amount of power democrats are likely to consolidate in the next few elections there could be some serious movement on this if it becomes a priority for the party. I think the big three are way too powerful and need to be broken up, but doing so intelligently is a tricky problem that I don't have much faith in government tackling. Zuckerberg integrating all the services yesterday seems…

why are you bullish on democrats winning the next few elections?

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#255

Post by twtw » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

> because Comcast has -bribed- donated to way more congresspeople than google

Is that true? [1] indicates Google spent more than Comcast in lobbying in q1 2015. I have no idea how this varies quarter by quarter and since 2015, but Google spends a lot lobbying.

I would not be surprised if that extends to campaign contributions as well. Google donates a ton of money to a ton of politicians.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/21/google-co...

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#256

Post by jhall1468 » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

wybiral wrote: post #52

Google/Facebook/Amazon have the power to push any startup competition out of the market in ways that are hard to even enumerate. Think about all of the services, devices, and standards that they control. Watching the fanboys defend their favorite tech giant is incredible. These companies are not behaving in the markets or people's best interest and they are way too big, at a scale that dwarfs most of the worlds organ…

> Watching the fanboys defend their favorite tech giant is incredible. These companies are not behaving in the markets or people's best interest and they are way too big, at a scale that dwarfs most of the worlds organizations.

It's not illegal to be big, it's illegal to use your influence to prevent competition in a way that's illegal. There's zero evidence of that, which is why she's talking about a new law.

And please refrain from calling those that disagree with you "fanboys". It diminishes every single point you're attempting to make, because you sound like a jaded teenager rather than an adult that wants to have a conversation.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#257

Post by bloorp » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

A counter-argument is that even someone like you who doesn't use facebook, amazon, and google is still irrevocably affected by their power and behaviors. You seem to think you've escaped them, but you surely have a Shadow Profile in facebook, you browse websites that show you AdSense ads (google), and oh yeah, your civic institutions are manipulable via popular opinion on facebook. Hmmm, you do have a strong point about Comcast and Verizon, but I think there's a false choice in there.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#258

Post by basch » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #227

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

Can you avoid using services that run on AWS, though? Or avoid sites that advertise and get analytics from Google? These companies are so dangerous not only because of their consumer-facing services, but the fact that they've made themselves an integral part of our online infrastructure.

Sure it might be hard to avoid AWS but 1) Azure is coming for it fast and 2) from a customer standpoint using AWS is pretty independent of selling products on Amazon. If amazon were deranking products whos owners had switched from aws to azure, i might have a different opinion.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#259

Post by rayiner » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

confounded wrote: post #238

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

> Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for things that will make my use of the internet objectively worse (NN, SOPA, etc...). Is this true? It depends on your use of the internet and definitions of “worse”, but I know that both Google and Facebook have been strong opponents of state-level Internet privacy legislation. They also spend huge amounts on lobbying,…

Alphabet spends about 50-75% more than Verizon or Comcast on lobbying. Which is amazing considering they’re not in a regulated industry. When you’re in a regulated industry, regulators micro-manage your business so there is a lot of lobbying involved dealing with relatively mundane and uncontroversial things. Not big picture stuff, but like cities vetoing fiber nodes because they’re ugly. Tech companies don’t deal with that, so it’s amazing they manage to spend more.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#260

Post by jefe_ » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

oceanstone wrote: post #178

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I could get behind something like this if it also presented these platforms with a consistent framework for moderating content. They reach levels where they are more akin to public spaces than digital communities, and should have moderation strategies which mirror this.