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Google .dev domain early access

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Re: Google .dev domain early access

#251

Post by wmf »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #189
whatshisface wrote: post #181

A while ago, some posts on HN went around saying that you shouldn't use third-world TLDs for your startup because some of them are unreliable stewards who would put your domain at risk. Does registering a .dev domain make you dependent on Google in the same way that registering a .ly makes you dependent on Libya?

It’s a good question. Does anyone know who legally owns the domain and what responsibility google has to ensure you can use the TLD in perpetuity?

"ICANN requires all registrars and gTLD registries to contract with a data escrow provider in order to safeguard registrants ... in case of registry or registrar failure, accreditation termination, or accreditation relapse without renewal." Basically if Google screws up then ICANN will give the data to someone competent who will take over the domain. https://icannwiki.org/Data_Escrow

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#252

Post by jonathankoren »

derimagia wrote: post #233
stingraycharles wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bit of a stretch, not? If I visit dev.somesite.com, I can reasonably assume it belongs to the same owner as somesite.com. The same can not be said about somesite.dev.

Not sure I understand the point here, you're comparing subdomains to TLDs?

Compare and contrast whitehouse.gov and whitehouse.com

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#253

Post by byuu »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #226
byuu wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.test also works, but I like .dev more, so I have and continue to use .dev via hosts file (edit: hearing Firefox is doing the .dev HSTS preload as well, that's very disappointing to hear.) I do wish /etc/hosts accepted wildcards, though. It can be a touch annoying having to add a new rule every time I create a new subdomain.

If you like .dev so much instead of .test, why not use something like subdomain.[public-domain].dev.com for all of your dev use? It seems silly to continue using .dev, especially when this will now be a public and commonly used TLD. So now, if you're modifying .dev records for a local/private network, and then you or someone on that network attempts to go to a public website that is using the .dev TLD, it might not w…

I guess I just don't like multi-billion dollar companies coming in and dictating that I change my workflow for their cash grabs.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#254

Post by CydeWeys »

willmadden wrote: post #195

Alphabet has too much cash. They have a well established track record of enthusiastically backing exciting new projects way outside of their core competency just to dump them like hot garbage several years later. They also compete in random new industries each time this happens. It doesn't seem like a smart move to lease a domain from a politically active mega-monopoly that might decide to randomly become your compet…

Hi. I'm the Tech Lead of Google Registry, the team that is launching .dev (not to be confused with the linked Google Domains, which is one of many registrars selling .dev domains to end users).

You'll be glad to know that TLDs can't simply be discontinued like other products might be. ICANN doesn't allow it. The procedures in place preventing a live TLD from shutting down are called EBERO; more details here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/ebero-2013-04-02-en

The way it works is that all registries must send daily full backups to a third-party escrow provider, which are then used to restore the TLD under a different operator if the original operator shuts down unexpectedly. This is not some theoretical backup/restore procedure that goes untested; it's been used in the past, e.g. with .wed: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-12-08-en

But this typically only happens when the registry operator goes abruptly bankrupt, and is thus quite rare. Many, many widely used TLDs have been seamlessly sold/transferred across registry operators without you ever realizing it, including .io last year. That would be the "worst" you would expect from TLDs launched by large established players like Google. You actually get a lot more protections with gTLDs than you do with ccTLDs (such as .io), as ccTLDs aren't bound by contract with ICANN and thus aren't forced to do EBERO, or anything else for that matter.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#255

Post by tehlike »

willmadden wrote: post #195

Alphabet has too much cash. They have a well established track record of enthusiastically backing exciting new projects way outside of their core competency just to dump them like hot garbage several years later. They also compete in random new industries each time this happens. It doesn't seem like a smart move to lease a domain from a politically active mega-monopoly that might decide to randomly become your compet…

To be honest, TLD business is probably not one of them. Even fi google becomes your competitor, they won't touch the domain.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#256

Post by CydeWeys »

bhartzer wrote: post #151
catern wrote: post #114

This "early-access" price which decreases over time is an approximation of a Dutch auction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction Dutch auctions are incentive-compatible - they allocate the resource to the person that gains the highest utility for having it. Maybe Google got some of the people working on ads auctions to design this pricing structure.

I’m, that’s an icann rule for launching new tlds. The early access period is always higher, then there are several other periods that happen before a tld gets to General availability. This pricing structure is not just for .dev domains.

FYI, there is no ICANN requirement that any sort of auction be involved in launching a new TLD. We used to use a standard auction (called the landrush phase in TLD parlance), but have since switched over to a descending price Dutch auction because it's significantly less operational burden for us.

It's generally a good idea to have some kind of auction for the reasons the parent comment mentions, as it is a more economically efficient way to allocate the limited namespace to those who want it the most.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#258

Post by CydeWeys »

ameliaquining wrote: post #132
demarq wrote: post #117

Google is such a big company, I find it bizarre they are trying to make money in this way. It would be interesting to know what they make at the end of the pre-sale.

My guess would be that this isn't primarily about the money (there are probably domains they could get more than $11,500 for), but rather about allocating the most in-demand domains in a way that reflects how badly people want them. A Dutch-auction-type thing like they're doing is a crude solution to this problem, but if they just went straight to GA too much valuable real estate would immediately be claimed by squat…

Bingo.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#259

Post by ghobs91 »

willmadden wrote: post #195

Alphabet has too much cash. They have a well established track record of enthusiastically backing exciting new projects way outside of their core competency just to dump them like hot garbage several years later. They also compete in random new industries each time this happens. It doesn't seem like a smart move to lease a domain from a politically active mega-monopoly that might decide to randomly become your compet…

If I had to bet, the majority of .dev pages will be engineers posting their portfolio, not startups building developer tools.

Re: Google .dev domain early access

#260

Post by Whatevers »

ebg13 wrote: post #250
Whatevers wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hi. I'm trying to read your website but it's broken in one of the dominant web browsers in the world. Don't we all hate reports like this one. "Yeah I know what information you need but my high horse told me to write this crap instead."

> 12:54 PM Hi you said that the link https://domains.google/tld/dev/ doesn't work on Safari? Where exactly do you think that came from? Kindly note the words "you said". It's almost as if there was a "please tell us what you're asking about" field that you fill in before being connected to a chat agent or something.

Still having issues climbing down?
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