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Dotfile madness

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Re: Dotfile madness

#251

Post by tinco »

ecnahc515 wrote: post #239
weberc2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Default gopath was just a way to let newbies get up and running quickly; it originally required you to specify where to put it. I imagine they put it at ~/go so it would be glaringly obvious. Hopefully modules will render it all moot anyway.

They put it at ~/go because that's what every official document used as the example $GOPATH, before it had a default value, so it's largely just to minimize change from what they previously recommended. That said, for something like source code, it makes sense to go into $HOME, so I don't understand this particular complaint the other poster made.

Other people's code shouldn't be in my $HOME if I didn't put it there explicitly. If it's part of the dependencies of a project, it should be either in a cache directory of that particular project, or in the cache directory of the build tool (that preferably conforms to XDG), like all sane build tools do. GOPATH is an incomplete (thus incorrect) solution to a problem that was being solved correctly and completely in other languages (like Ruby).

It's weird that the Go developers were working in such isolation that they didn't pick up on this. All programming languages that I know of that work on modern tooling (Haskell, Rust, Node.JS, even C#!) adopted the Ruby style dependency management when it turned out to be correct years ago.

Re: Dotfile madness

#252

Post by sakoht »

The real problem is that any app I run accesss all files I own with equal permissions. App1 and App2 shouldn’t write their data to my home, or read each other’s data, or, please, be able to write each other’s data.

A video game can read my tax forms. WTF.

Mobile & tablet OSs solve this. Everything has to follow.

Until then, basically every app should run in a docker container. Then it can do what it wants.

Re: Dotfile madness

#253

Post by pmontra »

sakoht wrote: post #252

The real problem is that any app I run accesss all files I own with equal permissions. App1 and App2 shouldn’t write their data to my home, or read each other’s data, or, please, be able to write each other’s data. A video game can read my tax forms. WTF. Mobile & tablet OSs solve this. Everything has to follow. Until then, basically every app should run in a docker container. Then it can do what it wants.

You can create another user and sudo / gksudo to it when working on sensitive data. It never occurred to me before reading your comment. I could start doing it myself.

Re: Dotfile madness

#254

Post by CGamesPlay »

gumby wrote: post #65

The lack of useful names on the files is IMHO the most egregious issue. (OK using names that don’t start with ‘.’ is worse). I don’t ls -A my homedir as much, but what the hell are .517827.padl? Who created .android (I don’t use android and don’t develop for it) etc. These people are arrogant shitheads and I’d like to know who they are so I can avoid their software. I assume if they do crap like this their software d…

> These people are arrogant shitheads and I’d like to know who they are so I can avoid their software.

Wow, this is really assuming the worst in people. It’s much more likely to be ignorance because the other developer doesn’t know where the file came from either (some compiler flag on a library accidentally enabled), or also doesn’t ls -a in their home.

Re: Dotfile madness

#255

Post by codinger »

jecxjo wrote: post #137

Oddly I feel completely the opposite about this topic. I think dot files in your home directory are exactly the way to go. Using the XDG standard leaves you with whatever the distro decides is the correct location for these files. While their recommendation is all in the home directory, I wouldn't put it past some of these distro developers to make some crazy /var/users/{uid}/config directory. This is important when…

At my university I only have write permissions in my home folder so I prefer this too and I only need to backup my home directory as well.

Re: Dotfile madness

#256

Post by Wowfunhappy »

dmitrygr wrote: post #228
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ This. And the amazing thing is it's probably the least common place for games to put save data. I think I've played exactly one game that ever used it.

Most likely because the proper API to get the path to that folder was vista-or-later and games preferred to be backward compatible

Okay, but now nothing supports XP, so there's no excuse!

Re: Dotfile madness

#257

Post by empath75 »

tinco wrote: post #251
ecnahc515 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put it at ~/go because that's what every official document used as the example $GOPATH, before it had a default value, so it's largely just to minimize change from what they previously recommended. That said, for something like source code, it makes sense to go into $HOME, so I don't understand this particular complaint the other poster made.

Other people's code shouldn't be in my $HOME if I didn't put it there explicitly. If it's part of the dependencies of a project, it should be either in a cache directory of that particular project, or in the cache directory of the build tool (that preferably conforms to XDG), like all sane build tools do. GOPATH is an incomplete (thus incorrect) solution to a problem that was being solved correctly and completely in…

Ruby dependency and version management is as much a clusterfuck as any other language, imo.

Re: Dotfile madness

#258

Post by nycticorax »

sascha_sl wrote: post #125
nycticorax wrote: post #119

To me, the real problem is not the dotfiles, but the regular (i.e. non-hidden) files that applications surreptitiously create in my home folder. (Which the author does mention as being particularly bad.) dotfiles in the home folder are not a new thing on Linux (e.g. .bashrc, .profile, .emacs, etc.), even if it would be better if more applications used the XDG folders. And if I don't see them when I "ls", they don't b…

>And when people complain, the devs have the gall to suggest that this is all fine. You're complaining on a really high level and nobody suggested "this is fine". They suggested "wishlist" is fine according to their definition of "if it's not immediately broken and a fix is not trivial" If you have an issue with default folders that are quite normal in a modern desktop environment I suggest you move back to Arch or w…

Maybe I'm being unfair to the snap devs. But maybe not. Comments like this don't inspire confidence:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1575053...

Also, the bug was first reported in 2016, and Mark Shuttleworth himself has commented on it. And yet it's still not fixed. That gives me the impression that the devs don't consider it super-important. Which is odd to me, since I consider not doing this kind of thing to be 'table stakes' for any application that wants me to take it seriously.

> If you have an issue with default folders that are quite normal in a modern desktop environment I suggest you move back to Arch or wherever you came from and install i3 again?

Ummm, I came from Linux before they started having default Documents, Videos, etc folders. And, like I said, the nice thing is that, in Linux, I can change the XDG environment variables and delete the (IMHO) foolish Documents, Music, Videos, etc folders.

Re: Dotfile madness

#259

Post by jandrese »

zozbot123 wrote: post #247
oskkejdjdkjd wrote: post #244

Files in the Linux ecosystem are a mess. Files scattered everywhere and each instance of Linux uses some different arbitrary directory scheme. We really need a reboot. New micro kernel based OS with clear directory logic and dedicated directories for applications to keep stuff.

> dedicated directories for applications to keep stuff. That's what /opt is for!

I thought /opt was for fully self-contained applications. Sort of prehistoric version of snaps.

Re: Dotfile madness

#260

Post by proactivesvcs »

dijit wrote: post #126
nycticorax wrote: post #119

To me, the real problem is not the dotfiles, but the regular (i.e. non-hidden) files that applications surreptitiously create in my home folder. (Which the author does mention as being particularly bad.) dotfiles in the home folder are not a new thing on Linux (e.g. .bashrc, .profile, .emacs, etc.), even if it would be better if more applications used the XDG folders. And if I don't see them when I "ls", they don't b…

Same for the default gopath. That was horrifying the first time. At least you can override it.

On Windows Golang defaults to install to C:\. Had no problems running it from Program Files instead. It's crazy that a new programming language cannot follow decades-old conventions!
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