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DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

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Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#251

Post by Brakenshire »

Freak_NL wrote: post #129
mattlondon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 I dont see why this was needed - it is a regression in terms of usability and performance (loading performance - cant comment on quality of the maps just yet, but I understand from others that the map data is woeful). Really disappointed. I used to recommend DDG to everyone, but this feels like a sell-out - without any justification for why they've done it, my mind just leaps to conclusions about marketing and try…

Definitely a severe regression in the Netherlands. Apple Maps doesn't even show houses, and has only a fraction of the POI's OpenStreetMap has. It doesn't have directions for bicycles either — and it leaves out a bunch of dedicated cycleways in my area. And the colours! All features seem to bleed into their low-contrast pastel neighbours. This doesn't feel like a proper match for DuckDuckGo at all.

Someone mentioned Qwant Maps upthread, I think that’s what I’ll use instead.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#252

Post by Aloha »

ejoso wrote: post #207
Aloha wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those of us who are, it sounds excessively clinical, most of us dont like thinking of our sexuality in a clinical way. Also the poster is not wrong, talking about homosexuality, is cool and okay, calling someone a homosexual is often a language flag that they may be less than open minded.

This might all be true, but is there ever going to be a point where we assume positive intent? We shouldn’t be inferring deep-seeded psychological attributes in every day communication. It’s super likely that nothing at all was meant by using the clinical term.

I didnt see a lack of good faith in the discussion, it was more of a "hey, you might wanna know, that using that particular word associates you with this group you might not want association with" - which if anything is an assertion that requires good faith to make.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#253

Post by latexr »

aphextron wrote: post #115
grsmto wrote: post #8

I wish they were explaining why they moved away from Mapbox and OSM in general!

>I wish they were explaining why they moved away from Mapbox and OSM in general! Because it sucks. Isn’t that obvious? There’s no point in having a feature that nobody uses. I switched to DDG a few months ago and this has always been the one weakness. This is really good news IMO. Apple maps has come a long long way since launch, and their data is about on par with Google at this point. You can argue all day that of…

> Apple maps has come a long long way since launch, and their data is about on par with Google at this point.

Not in Portugal, or most places in Europe where I’ve tried it. They are so far behind it’s not even funny.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#254

Post by Brakenshire »

mtmail wrote: post #14
lukeqsee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Apple at least augments their data with OSM data; however, I suspect the primary driver of this decision was price. Edit: request are succeeding for me now.

Apple employee spoke at a recent OSM conference. Yes, they use OSM data as well. In some countries more than others. Apple also has a fulltime staff working on OSM. https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues , https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/

Apple can only use OSM data pre license change which is very old now, those links are to contributions Apple is making to OSM (similar to the big Microsoft contributions) which are probably there as a way of trying to prevent a Google monopoly, but not indications that Apple is using the data.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#255

Post by latexr »

So DDG will now use Apple’s data to find places? Please don’t. It should be the other way around.

Not even a month ago I made a search for a famous place in Lisbon (you know, big metropolitan area, capital of Portugal, 11th-most populous urban area in the European Union) and Apple Maps didn’t even know it existed. Made the search in DDG and it found it, from where I had to copy the address and manually search for it in Maps.

Or I could’ve used Google Maps in one try, but I genuinely want DDG and Apple Maps to succeed so I keep trying. But please do use the best data of both, don’t replace one with the other.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#256

Post by kortilla »

objclxt wrote: post #173
SEJeff wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Tim Cook, as a homosexual, has teared up when speaking about human rights abuses of homosexual under repressive regimes, and how as the CEO of apple, he will do anything within his power to ensure your data stays safe on apple infra / hw because he personally thinks about it. Can't remember the interview, but it was quite touching actually. He's very clear in shareholder calls / letters and in their privacy p…

> Because Tim Cook, as a homosexual, has teared up when speaking about human rights abuses of homosexual under repressive regimes ...but is also more than happy to meet and shake hands with the leaders of those repressive regimes? Like the UAE, which criminalizes sodomy and deports those who identify as LGBT? https://www.thenational.ae/uae/government/abu-dhabi-crown-pr... Is it possible Apple, like Tim Cook, has the…

Right, shaking hands is literally an endorsement of everything the country does.

This must blow your mind: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnyoobserv...

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#257

Post by adtac »

latexr wrote: post #255

So DDG will now use Apple’s data to find places? Please don’t. It should be the other way around. Not even a month ago I made a search for a famous place in Lisbon (you know, big metropolitan area, capital of Portugal, 11th-most populous urban area in the European Union) and Apple Maps didn’t even know it existed. Made the search in DDG and it found it, from where I had to copy the address and manually search for it…

>best data of both

Isn't that basically just Google Maps? I thought Apple Maps' data was just a subset of Google Maps'.

What does Apple Maps do better? Genuinely curious.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#258

Post by uniformlyrandom »

adtac wrote: post #257
latexr wrote: post #255

So DDG will now use Apple’s data to find places? Please don’t. It should be the other way around. Not even a month ago I made a search for a famous place in Lisbon (you know, big metropolitan area, capital of Portugal, 11th-most populous urban area in the European Union) and Apple Maps didn’t even know it existed. Made the search in DDG and it found it, from where I had to copy the address and manually search for it…

>best data of both Isn't that basically just Google Maps? I thought Apple Maps' data was just a subset of Google Maps'. What does Apple Maps do better? Genuinely curious.

It is, but without the desire to monetize your searches.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#259

Post by latexr »

adtac wrote: post #257
latexr wrote: post #255

So DDG will now use Apple’s data to find places? Please don’t. It should be the other way around. Not even a month ago I made a search for a famous place in Lisbon (you know, big metropolitan area, capital of Portugal, 11th-most populous urban area in the European Union) and Apple Maps didn’t even know it existed. Made the search in DDG and it found it, from where I had to copy the address and manually search for it…

>best data of both Isn't that basically just Google Maps? I thought Apple Maps' data was just a subset of Google Maps'. What does Apple Maps do better? Genuinely curious.

Yes, Google Maps is superior in my region, but as I mentioned, I’d rather support Apple and DDG. I do so for their stances on privacy, but also because usability-wise I do prefer Apple Maps.

> I thought Apple Maps' data was just a subset of Google Maps'

They must be different datasets; I doubt Google would want to give Apple any data, or data Apple would take it. I will mention that once I have found one place in Apple Maps that was not in Google Maps. It was a small hostel in Europe.

Re: DuckDuckGo will use Apple Maps

#260

Post by setr »

latexr wrote: post #249
Aunche wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with how much DDG's marketing is focused on trashing their competition. They deliberately obfuscate privacy issues to strengthen their narrative. Sure duckduckgo is a good company right now, but that's only because they're small. I doubt they'll stay that way when they capture a significant market share.

> Sure duckduckgo is a good company right now, but that's only because they're small. Only because they are small? That seems to imply that if they ever get big, they’ll no doubt become evil, privacy-wise. Apple proves that does not have to be the case.

Apple’s main business is hardware, and software that helps sell the hardware. Any revenue from data is likely a seperate, minor stream; and for it to become a significant one, likely requires significant changes in Apple’s operations. Like any other hardware company, they don’t need google’s kind of data collection to make money.

But DDG is primarily funded by search, and the search business is funded by ads, which are more valuable based on targetting quality, which is improved by... data. About the unique user, specifically. For DDG to grow while maintaining search as it’s primary business, it’s difficult to imagine them not eventually (or at least, being heavily incentivized to) approach/mimic google-style of data collection — because data collection is their money maker.

Apple is unique amongst FAANG in being non-data-reliant, from the start; they never had strong incentives to turn to it, and took the opportunity to stand against it, improving their primary business without any immediate loss (they’re hit by opportunity cost for it, but otherwise).

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