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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#251

Post by blihp »

volkl48 wrote: post #167
blihp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and anyone who likes to keep their system a good long time https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 Given the lackluster upgrade options in the last 5+ years, I can see a lot of people trying to hang on to their next/last PC as long as possible. Now they'll have no options once Apple decides their system is done.

They're currently running a pilot with a couple models on extending repair services to vintage models in all areas, not just the handful of places where it's required by law. Assuming that is continued/expanded in the future, that'll give you ~7 years or so of official hardware support after the model goes out of production instead of 5. I do not in any way support locking down hardware, but most hardware will be pre…

My nearly 15 year old PPC Macs take offense! Seriously, for light tasks around the house, they are still useful (granted, not at all secure or current but that's not an issue in all use cases.) Yeah, I get that I'm an edge case...

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#252

Post by locusm »

mleonhard wrote: post #81
qaq wrote: post #52

Bought first non Apple notebook in 12 years turns out Ubuntu is fairly usable and docker performs way better than on OS X.

Which laptop did you get and which version of Linux do you run? I bought a 2015 DELL XPS 13 (9343) Developer Edition with Ubuntu. Ubuntu 16.04 has worked very poorly on it from the start. The installer crashed and I had to reinstall. Then the wifi was very slow. It would frequently lock up on resume. Hardware video decoding would occasionally crash and switch to software decoding which is choppy and eats battery powe…

Pop_OS on Lenovo is the bomb. Well, on a T480S at least.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#253

Post by nextlevelwizard »

michaelmrose wrote: post #221
jen729w wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not “blinded by [my] unwavering loyalty to the brand” but the suggestion that this sort of thing is going to send me over to Windows or Linux is ridiculous. I’m a normal guy who works in IT and does pretty much everything with my MBP. Work (Citrix, email, Office), play (Logic, Lightroom), development (Sublime, Chrome, the Terminal) ... I mean come on. For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would hav…

Aftershot Pro could replace lightroom, Reaper appears to be suitable for music production although there are other options. Both run on windows and linux. Every other laptop maker in existence lets you repair your own machine. Lenovo and Dell make solid machines that are powerful and light. Microsofts are even supposed to be pretty good. The fact that your Apple phone/watch syncs with fewer platforms seems to be a po…

So now to get "just as good, but cheaper" laptop which isn't as light or thin since somehow thouse aren't the primary functions of a laptop. I now should also buy a new expensive phone which sends all of my data to Google or I would have to buy the same phone and then research how to install 3rd party ROM which gets updated months later than stock Android and has god knows what security holes. Then I'd need to spend even more money on new watch/health tracker that syncronized seamlessly with both my new phone and my laptop.

Before you get your panties on a knot I run both Windows and Linux and at home whole trifecta Windows, Linux, and OS X

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#254

Post by bigbugbag »

fouc wrote: post #198

Lenovo thinkpads have a security chip also. These so-called security chips give me mixed feelings. They might improve the security of the average consumer, but they also create more barriers for anyone that wants to tinker with their setup.

Almost every computer has a security chip now.

At least if your computer has something related to one of these names: AMD, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Wave Systems Corp, Digital Management, Inc., Cisco, Lenovo, Infineon, Juniper Networks, Fujitsu, etc.

These are the member of the consortium Trusted Computing Group[1] who pushed for Trusted Computing[2] through hardware or software.

Do you remember the Palladium fiasco (now Next Generation Secure computing Base[3]) ? The TCPA (Trusted Computing Platform Alliance) ? This was the beginning and it happened in the late 1990's/early 2000's.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing_Group

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#255

Post by teknologist »

Jmcdd wrote: post #6

This is a shame and another setback for Macbooks / Macs. I'd agree with "planned obselescense" over security being the motive as the article pointed out. This will also not hurt Apple in the slightest, only their consumers who are blinded by their unwavering loyalty to the brand. Sent from my iPhone

Implying that "unwavering loyalty to the brand" is the only reason to want this. I like that my computer is locked down and potentially less vulnerable to random attacks thanks to proprietary locks designed and reviewed by security experts.

(I also use an iPhone for this reason.)

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#256

Post by lotsofpulp »

bigbugbag wrote: post #244
jen729w wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not “blinded by [my] unwavering loyalty to the brand” but the suggestion that this sort of thing is going to send me over to Windows or Linux is ridiculous. I’m a normal guy who works in IT and does pretty much everything with my MBP. Work (Citrix, email, Office), play (Logic, Lightroom), development (Sublime, Chrome, the Terminal) ... I mean come on. For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would hav…

> apple-only, apple-only, apple user lock-in, apple walled garden, apple. > don't tell me I can do this with something else than apple. Of you cannot play windows game on your linux box and you cannot get the same experience you have in the walled garden outside of it unless you change and adapt you devices. I have a client with a Linux ecosystem and a single iphone, apple does not provide itunes for linux so making…

Basically everyone in my family used to call me for tech support (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins), but in the past 3 years or so, I’ve convinced everyone to iPhones and iPads and MacBook Airs, they have have basically zero tech support calls to me. Everything just works as long as they keep track of their Apple ID and iCloud login. There is definitely value to not spending any time or brain cycles worrying about how to do something, and having everything integrated and always working.

With Windows, it’s always update this, restart that, where is this menu option, drivers? It’s not for people who don’t want to spend their time figuring that stuff out. Plus Microsoft is not as trustworthy of a brand.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#257

Post by bigbugbag »

threeseed wrote: post #35
colejohnson66 wrote: post #5

I never understood Apple with this. They fight hard to make long lasting devices (iOS 12 can be installed all the way back on the 5s IIRC), but then fight back against repairability

It's a tradeoff between owner repairability and security. And Apple is betting that the second is more important. This isn't a black/white issue. It's which shade of grey you prefer.

This has very little if anything to do with security, it's about control and profit.

Apple makes good profit with apple store repairs and wants to prevent repairs from happening outside their grasp to make more profit.

Security is designed against a threat model, the vast majority of user do not have to defend against "malevolent third party repair shop planting hacked hardware during repairs". The main culprit for this kind of attack is US governement agencies engaging in interdiction (intercepting hardware during shipping to alter it) not third party repair shops (and IIRC apple works with those US agencies).

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#258

Post by jen729w »

flukus wrote: post #199
jen729w wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not “blinded by [my] unwavering loyalty to the brand” but the suggestion that this sort of thing is going to send me over to Windows or Linux is ridiculous. I’m a normal guy who works in IT and does pretty much everything with my MBP. Work (Citrix, email, Office), play (Logic, Lightroom), development (Sublime, Chrome, the Terminal) ... I mean come on. For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would hav…

For someone not blinded by unwavering loyalty you sure do love being locked in to a single vendor. > Don’t tell me that I can get this all with Linux and a Dell. You know I can’t. That's a feature, in every category of electronoic life I have multiple companies competing to provide me with nearly everything I want. > For my “loyalty” to be considered “unwavering” there would have to be a legitimate alternative that d…

“For someone not blinded by unwavering loyalty you sure do love being locked in to a single vendor.”

That’ll be a logical fallacy whose name I can’t be arsed finding.

I sure do love not having to deal with a bunch of shit just to keep my computers (phones, tablets, watches, earphones, tv) running. That’s what I love.

This sad trope of the Apple fanboy needs to die. Just because I love not having to deal with all the crap does not mean that I love Apple to the depths of my heart. Would I prefer it if they didn’t lock independent repairers out of their new MacBooks? Sure! (Well “probably”, I haven’t considered all of the security implications. But probably!)

Does that mean I’ll stick by them, no matter, what, for eternity? Of course not. If they start to fuck things up, I’ll look for something better.

The point is, right now, there is nothing better. Don’t lie to me and tell me that Linux on a Dell is better. It is not. It is different in some ways, some of which may be important enough to you such that you classify it as “better”. But, objectively, for the everyman, is the Apple ecosystem currently the best? It absolutely is. Does that make me a sad fanboy? Shame on you if you think so.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#259

Post by chewyland »

sgt wrote: post #249
foepys wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this reason MacBooks aren't really business devices in my opinion. What kind of business is okay with the service Apple provides? You have to send one employee to the Apple Store (if there is even one located near you), maybe get a replacement device, maybe wait for 2 weeks for it to return? This is so much more expensive than buying Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. with on-site support. On top of that you often get repair…

We mitigate this risk by just having a spare device or spare laptop on premises. It works and it's cheap. We use tons of Macs in a business setting, and we're definitely not going back to PC's. The PC's were a nightmare (not in terms of the hardware, but because of the sofware) from a management and administration perspective. Primarily because of Windows. Using Macs running macOS has really been a gamechanger.

As a MacBook owner MacOS feels like abandonware to me.

When I reboot into Bootcamp and Windows 10 I feel like I'm using a machine 10 years in the future.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#260

Post by mothsonasloth »

This is a step backward on ownership but the average Joe isn't going to care about this. If at most might protest at their large repair bill they get after dropping their Starbuck's Frappucino over their keyboard. However they will quickly go back to their normal way of life; which is accepting onerous Terms and Conditions from corporations.
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