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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

aeon.co

251–260 of 285 posts

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you trigger an electronic counter by pressing the button?

If I recall, some of these modes activate a random timer, so you don’t directly trigger an action. More like indicating that an action should occur, without directly starting it.

Yes, the delay is random. According to the manual, this was validated with experts Rabbis and is congruent with the way things should be done on Sabbath.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall, some of these modes activate a random timer, so you don’t directly trigger an action. More like indicating that an action should occur, without directly starting it.

Yes, the delay is random. According to the manual, this was validated with experts Rabbis and is congruent with the way things should be done on Sabbath.

"it is in God's hands... As long as it's within the next 10 seconds"

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

> If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. > It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. I don't buy this at all (sidenote: interesting that you decided to use a throwaway for this comment?) - taking a vacation fr…

As someone else with a throwaway account, some of us come here for the ideas rather than to build a social profile.

And your point about taking breaks is valid.

But I agree with the parent's about not using a break as a magic elixir. You need to detach once in a while AND put reasonable regular limitations.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you trigger an electronic counter by pressing the button?

If I recall, some of these modes activate a random timer, so you don’t directly trigger an action. More like indicating that an action should occur, without directly starting it.

Whatever action it is, it's triggered by your intention and your button press. You close a circuit for a very specific action and this tells a microcontroller to start counting a (random) number of seconds before initiating the exact action you intended. This is how all electronics work. In this case you don't start the device, you just start the electronic timer of the device.

At least start that timer the day before.

Maybe if your oven just turned itself on randomly and you quickly ran to put the pot in... It would probably be served a lot better by a digital assistant that you could tell to do things, as long as that's not considered a "slave".

This just feels like a "trick". As it stands today you turn on one device instead of another. And you certainly do the "work" part of the "you shall not do any work".

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the delay is random. According to the manual, this was validated with experts Rabbis and is congruent with the way things should be done on Sabbath.

"it is in God's hands... As long as it's within the next 10 seconds"

People will always interpret the words of their God to better fit their own needs. They're having a hard enough time as it is to keep people close to religion. This means artificially taking down some of the barriers that no longer fit in today's world view is a must.

I mean breaking this commandment in particular is punishable by death. So I guess there isn't much choice if the religion is to have any followers.

But I'm waiting for the first person that, after consulting with expert clergy, comes at the conclusion that all they did was press the trigger. The gun and projectile did the rest, with great assistance from the target who decided to be in the line of sight :).

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, how can I afford to buy a house in an area of roughly my choice and not work horrible hours? Oh wait I can’t do both. And you’d probably say that’s my choice to forgo living in a nice house in a nice area. But of course, if houses cost 50% less and everyone worked 50% less I could afford the same house and work half as much, leaving more time to do what I want. Suddenly it seems like the decisions we make have…

> Cool, how can I afford to buy a house in an area of roughly my choice and not work horrible hours? Oh wait I can’t do both. And you’d probably say that’s my choice to forgo living in a nice house in a nice area. Uh, no, I would say that I really, truly, seriously, do not care what you choose to do with the 24 hours in each of the days of your life. So please, don't try to tell me what I should or should not do with…

My point is that, whether you want it or not, the choices we each make have impacts of varying directness on what choices other people can make. Whether you choose to acknowledge them doesn’t change the effect they have.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#258

a pharaonic economy driven by anxiety begets violence, dishonesty, jealousy, theft, the commodification of sex and familial alienation. None of these had a place in the Torahic economy, which was driven not by anxiety but by wholeness, enoughness. In such a society, there was no need to murder, covet, lie, commit adultery or dishonour one’s parents. Lol. All of that existed in the torahic economy. It never ceases to…

> But on the point of the article: I'm against all laws that force others to participate in your religion

I think you are reading something into the article that is not there.

It starts off with a little background wherein we learn that the author's first exposure to strict observation of the Sabbath was when his dad was hired because their family was not Jewish. I don't think it's likely he wants to force "his" religion on others considering it's not even his religion.

It also says, "It is time for us, whatever our religious beliefs, to see the Sabbatarian laws ... as the liberatory statements they were meant to be." Two interesting things about that sentence: (1) the "whatever our religious beliefs" and (2) the shift from "laws" to "statements".

One of the themes of the article was that the sabbath idea was probably incorporated into the religion because it was founded by former slaves. I think that's significant. Two different ways to view the ideas contained within a religion are (1) they originate from god and are revealed to humans and (2) they originate from man as cultural elements and get promoted to religion. The first (downward flow of ideas) is more of an insider, true believer way of looking at it, and the second (upward) is more of an outsider, religions-are-just-part-of-culture view. This article definitely gave me the impression that the author leans more toward the second, which in turn suggests they see the idea as separable from religion.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#259
post #218

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

> I get that they want to make sure workers have enough time off, but you could mandate days off for each worker without banning Sunday for everyone. It is not about individual working hours. Those are restricted by other laws. It is about having the same hours off as (most of) your family and friends, so you can spend time with them.

And what if your family and friends are Jewish or of a 7th-day protestant church? Banning Sunday work causes unnessecary difficulties at the state level. It. I feel it is positive as a societal norm but I myself recognize Saturday as the Sabbath and find it bizzare that protestants maintained the Sunday practice after leaving the Catholic church.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#260
post #210

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

Supermarkets are open from 7am to 10pm Monday-Saturday even in small cities. When you can't plan your week around this, you have other problems that won't be solved by abolishing Sunday laws. If you are living in a small town, you can always move to a bigger city at any time to get the benefits of longer opening hours.

I live in Munich. Here the stores close at 8.

> When you can't plan your week around this, you have other problems that won't be solved by abolishing Sunday laws.

Oh look, we got a logistical badass over here. Because you never ever need or want anything spur of the moment on a Sunday, right?

Look, it's not an enormous deal. But it does kind of suck. It's a decent sized decrease to convenience and a slight decrease to overall quality of life. Convenience is nice.

> If you are living in a small town, you can always move to a bigger city at any time to get the benefits of longer opening hours.

...Munich is the third largest city in the country. And I can't really just move, not a ton of Google-level jobs around. You sound like US conservatives: "don't like [insanely regressive policy]?? Why not just leave the country?!" Maybe because even if I don't like something, there's more than a single variable that I use to determine where I live?

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