Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#251

Post by baddox » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #197

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

You're not seeing all the other homeless people though who were displaced by high housing prices and who aren't spending all their time drugged out in highly visible urban areas. There are many homeless people living out of cars or shelters, or in tents. Many of them even still have jobs, they just can't afford housing. See: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ucla-anderson-forecast...

I'm not in Seattle (I live and work on some of the most conspicuous blocks in San Francisco for homeless drug users), but I'm sure that both groups exist in both cities. I think what's important is for policy proposals to treat the groups differently, rather than bundling them together into a proposal to "solve homelessness." In my experience in SF these proposals usually only focuses on one set of issues, like minimum wage and rent prices, which are unlikely to significantly help both groups of homeless people.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#252

Post by asdkhadsj » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #211

asdkhadsj wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really frustrating when a man makes that much and does so little. Like, I don't think/know if it should be law. I'm not talking about being Robinhood with our taxes or whatever. I don't know any of that. All I know is it's frustrating . Look at all the good Gates is working towards. There's just so much room for people with that much wealth to strive for. Honestly.. I think what's most frustrating is I can't ev…

Frustrating? I can understand why you would feel like it's a shame, or feel disappointed, or even ashamed of tech/bezos/humanity, but why frustrated ? Is it that you're upset that you can't change the way someone else spends their own personal fortune?

> Is it that you're upset that you can't change the way someone else spends their own personal fortune?

I haven't thought too much about it honestly, but it seems so, yes. I'm frustrated by a lot of things. It doesn't mean I think I should be trying to change Bezos' mind, but I think being frustrated in this scenario just means you feel a level of personal responsibility for the world around you. Even if you're not immediately responsible for it.

I'm frustrated by a ton of things I'm not personally able to change. Yet it doesn't change by desire for it to be different, my desire to find a way to improve the situation, and ultimately my tiny but meaningful feeling of personal responsibility.

Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt. I chose a word (frustrated) to express my emotion towards the situation I described earlier. I don't think it's wrong, but emotions are hardly a science.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#253

Post by sharkweek » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

Resident of Seattle here, who has spent a number of years volunteering with a variety of homeless services (Real Change, Urban Rest Stop, for the other locals on here).

I think you're right that the WORST of the homeless crisis is due to addiction and mental illness, but honestly that's only about half (edited [1]) or so of the homeless population.

The majority of the homeless or near-homeless people who use the city services try to stay off the grid as much as possible as to not draw any trouble upon themselves. The unfortunate reality of this scenario is that the public typically only sees the worst of the problem, and deems it nearly impossible to fix. I understand why that is the perception, but it's not taking into account the large population of homeless people who are mentally stable. I was also plesantly surprised by the large number of the homeless who are sober as to not be spending the little money they collect on expensive addictions.

[1] - https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/homeless-pop...

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#254

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

ageitgey wrote: post #222

dmode wrote: post #101

Finally someone realizes that there is a problem. There is no justification in the biggest economy of the world to have this much poverty and homelessness. I am amazed every time I travel to Europe, how few homeless people there are, despite their economic growth lagging the US. And it is inherently a solvable problem with adequate resources. We have $1 trillion for the military. Surely, we can spare a few billions a…

Agreed 100%. I live in California which has the same massive homelessness issues as Seattle. I also travel to Europe frequently and have noticed the same stark contrast where they seem to do much better at this. To try to understand why homelessness feels so much worse an California than in Europe, I did some very basic research (which I also posted on a similar thread once before). The numbers are shocking: San Fran…

You really can't compare.

London is a large city.

SF is just a tiny part of a larger metro area.

Do you know what the 'homeless' rate in 'The City of Foster City' is? Probably near 0.

I think a better comparison would be Bay Area to London.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#255

Post by baddox » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

zapita wrote: post #234

ithilglin909 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against programs to help people who can't afford normal housing. However, that's not the specific, hugely obvious problem in Seattle.

Maybe there’s more than one problem worth addressing in Seattle?

Almost certainly, and they almost certainly need very different solutions.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#256

Post by clort » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

fjsolwmv wrote: post #209

softawre wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. See also, on reddit: /r/almosthomeless /r/homeless even subs like /r/povertyfinance contain some people that live in their car at times.

Living in a car is homeless.

What is it about the car, that it doesn't actually have living accomodation or that it is not a house and has no address? For example, does living in an RV mean you are homeless?

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#257

Post by lostcolony » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

So I'm confused; you agree that housing is a problem (people move away or move in with others/into legally gray housing situations), and you agree that substance abuse and mental healthcare are problems.

Taken together, you're agreeing to the same set of problems that are popularly agreed upon as being problems. Seems like you're just quibbling?

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#258

Post by notaboutdave » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #154

I don't believe these externalized 'throwing money at things' solves much. What he can do is find innovative solutions within is own organization for the wellbeing of his own staff. And given his power in the value chain, start to demand basic rights in the crap countries of the world where the crap he peddles is made. Steve Jobs had so much power that literally in one, single email, in one sentence, could have chang…

Here's a Henry Rollins anecdote on how throwing money at tent cities might not be the best idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY2n4BYbgYE&t=23m51s

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#259

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

gammateam wrote: post #243

DoreenMichele wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the article. I've also had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I spent nearly 6 years homeless and got myself off the street without going through a program. The programs are often revolving doors that don't really fix the intractable personal problems that are a root cause of homelessness. The other two big issues: inadequate income and lack of affordable housing. Bezos is directly responsib…

> The other two big issues: inadequate income and lack of affordable housing. Bezos is directly responsible for his employees lack of adequate wages, an issue he won't fix. You realize that if Bezos gave all the Amazon employees 'adequate wages' that you would then still be blaming him for inadequate housing? Or at least different people in Seattle would. > No, he is going to build preschools in poor neighborhoods so…

The horror. Setting up lower socioeconomic statuses for long term success.

Poor children live with enormous daily stress and chronic lack of adequate nutrition sets up permanent problems that tend to be unreasonable. Children with stunting earn less wages over the course of their lives and have many other intractable problems.

There is always some hoop to jump through for the poor as to why adequate money must come someday down the road - just not today.

A la President Clinton famously announcing that he didn't want to give a tax cut because poor people would just spend their money foolishly and he was more qualified than them to spend their money wisely.

Would it help if the article didn't masquerade this effort as a cure all?

It would help if you would drop the sarcasm and contempt and take me seriously as a subject matter expert.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#260

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #187

emodendroket wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - exploding drug addiction and related mental health issues I think cause and effect are backwards here. Low wages and high housing prices seem like they'd naturally lead to homelessness and rates of drug addiction and mental illness among the homeless, although very high compared to the general population, are nowhere near as high as people would like to think.

We are talking about sentient people. Wages and housing prices may be an excuse, but they don't shove drugs down people's throats. Mental illness - may be. But one needs to know if it's the cause, or simply an exposing factor.

I don't think it's even controversial to say that people can turn to substance abuse due to adverse exogenous circumstances.