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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

251–260 of 632 posts

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#251
post #215
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but had you graduated with that debt, you would have been able to pay it off due to the salary you'd earn with your CS degree, right?

Thus putting him even further behind in the rat-race, where those who weren’t forced into debt due to their poor choice of birth parents (sarcasm, obviously) and circumstance.

Do you think the system should be structured so that no one is ever behind anyone else in the "rat race"?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#252
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why hasn't the market solved this problem? The market did solve the problem and then we blew it by undermining the family unit so we have people dependent on the state with no significant family support. > Believe it or not, its not impossible to manufacture a living space in a factory and assemble it on site in a day, to provide extremely well made and affordable housing structures. The soviets tried this approach…

Why do you think they got that habit to begin with? And frankly if you believe that a significant majority of the poor in America (or any other developed country) have multiple hundreds of dollars per day drug addictions, frankly I question how much experience you actually have with either the poor or drug addicts.

> Why do you think they got that habit to begin with?

In short, childhood trauma and lack of family support. Often the trauma comes from abuse from their family. These are not problems you can just throw money at.

> I question how much experience you actually have with either the poor or drug addicts.

If you must know my experience I did youth work for inner city kids from 1999-2006 in Langley BC. I then lived and worked in the Vancouver DTES from 2006-2017. I have several close friends and family members who work at Insite Injection Clinic, Portland Hotel Society, HIV/Aids Clinic at St. Paul Hospital, and the Odyssey and Nexus programs in downtown Vancouver.

Perhaps you are unaware what life on the streets is like.

Edit: also, I never said I was a "majority" that has an expensive addiction. I said the number of people is significant - which it undoubtedly is.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#253
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with the idea of sharing?

Nothing, unless you force a dog which hunted its bone to share it with one who slept the whole day, and call it "equality".

Or you can share 5% of your hunt to keep the lazy dog from attacking you while you sleep. Is it 'fair'? No. Is it a wise move? Maybe.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#254

Americans tried to other "solutions" peddled by politicians, economists, NYT and other pundits. In fact losing jobs and trying those other solutions is how they got here... Those other solutions suck even more. Except for a close to 10% that does as good as ever and even better, and who are the ones proposing those other "solutions"...

Do you have any constructive suggestions to add, or just cynicism?

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#255

I broke out of poverty. Why can't they do it too? It was a simple thing for me, a combination of studying hard, focusing on my future and the death of my father. You see, my parents were both fishermen. It's a grueling, painful job that can destroy your body as you age leaving you with back problems and forcing you to retire early. It also paid poorly and had a lot of risks. Which unfortunately for us, resulted in th…

I'm sorry to hear about your parents. However I don't know what your point is. On one hand you say your hard work and focus on future got you out of poverty. Then you say your parents are an example of where hard work and grit are NOT all you need. Honestly it sounds like you were born with a certain amount of intelligence, got some money to go to college, and you made the most of it. But where would you be if you ha…

There's always oil rigging work, which can start at 80k and pretty quickly get into the six figures with no college education

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support your position please.

Sharing resources with other people has absolutely nothing to do with being intelligent.

And not sharing them doesn't either.

You still haven't made a point.

Is the intelligent action the action that is most likely to benefit the group?

Is a group of 20 fed dogs stronger than a group of 20 dogs where one goes hungry and becomes a weak or unstable element?

Seems like you're just trying to somehow rally against equality and/or sharing, by associating them with naivité, like you have some knowledge others do not, because you don't like those words, rather than trying to actually discuss the concepts they represent, specifically in this context, properly.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#257
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely could've. My college offered student loans to me as a means of paying for my education but if I had $0 to my name upon hitting 18, my life would've been radically different. As I mentioned in another comment a lot of that money went towards helping my family with FAFSA supplementing my school costs. I was effectively responsible for supporting my entire family and given my other health/mental issues at t…

Right, but had you graduated with that debt, you would have been able to pay it off due to the salary you'd earn with your CS degree, right?

It's hard for me to say what would've happened as we drift further and further off into a pretty different hypothetical life but for reference it took me quite a long time post-grad to find a software job. It certainly wasn't due to a lack of looking, but rather that I lived in an area without many opportunities which meant that I would need to be relocated in order to kickstart my career.

Eventually I landed on a great company that was willing to do that, but it was a difficult search as an entry-level developer. Would I have been able to pay off my debt? In 5-10 years maybe. That's still a large burden for people to bear, and we're in one of the better paying careers.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#258
post #214

Why do these articles always start with a story about a person? I see this in nearly all articles from american news papers. It's strange. Seems like a paper from a young student who needs to get his 3000 wordcount. It just bloats the article and makes it difficult to get the information out of it.

That is what people are taught good journalism is. I agree, it's annoying and time consuming. It is disrespectful of my time as a reader.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#259
post #214

Why do these articles always start with a story about a person? I see this in nearly all articles from american news papers. It's strange. Seems like a paper from a young student who needs to get his 3000 wordcount. It just bloats the article and makes it difficult to get the information out of it.

I attended a panel at Rights Con 2016 about getting tech stories picked up by the news. One tip from journalists on the panel was that articles anchored on a human narrative arc tend to be more successful. The human story helps people understand why it is worth investing time to learn the related facts/science/tech.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#260
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's how we get those "vaccines cause autism" mothers. They like stories more than statistics, too.

Polemic. We also get stories like, "despite a strong economic recovery, John, 26, struggles to find a new job after being laid off."

That's my point.
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