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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#251

Post by taurath »

MBCook wrote: post #204

I think Apple’s fee is more than fair for many developers. Free hosting, they do all sorts of payment compliance/fraud/tax stuff for you. To a small developer I think it’s a huge boon. But once you become BIG (Candy Crush, Fortnight, Netflix, Amazon) that advantage no longer applies. Those companies are all capable of doing all the payment stuff on their own. And when you’re doing Fortnight business that 30% is a TON…

30% is a TON of money regardless. Its the difference between being in business and not if you are a niche product, profit vs loss for a small medium sized company. You're giving up 30% of your revenue.

Payments? Stripe fees are like 3-4%. Distribution? Free/non-IAP apps don't pay for this other than some licensing fees. I don't think there is a benefit that IOS/Gplay provide that even approaches being worth a 10% revenue hit, except in extreme cases.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#252

Post by jolmg »

sp527 wrote: post #194
cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

> We as a society need to start thinking about how we rate people. Right now we all shop for that 5-star rating and punish anyone with 4. We need to mature beyond that as it grows increasingly impossible to maintain perfect ratings. I couldn't disagree more with this sentiment. The answer is not to intentionally sabotage competitive market forces that are driving better outcomes for consumers. That's the equivalent o…

I didn't downvote, but I think cptaj's point was to "unsabotage" the rating system.

Ideally, the 5-star rating system should work like:

  - 1-star means Awful
  - 2-star means Bad
  - 3-star means OK
  - 4-star means Good
  - 5-star means Excellent
That means no one should have any problem using something rated 3 or above. However, by "[shopping] for that 5-star rating and [punishing] anyone with a 4", the rating system ends up meaning:

  - 1-star means Couldn't be worse
  - 2-star means Awful
  - 3-star means Bad
  - 4-star means There was a problem
  - 5-star means OK
Because we all know that's how the rating is treated, no one gives a 3 when the experience was normal and tries to reserve that 5-star for when a service was absolutely phenomenal. We just give a 5 when a service was OK.

Being more accepting of 4-star or 3-star ratings is not sabotaging competitive market forces; it's trying to use the 5-star rating system like it should be.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#253

Post by dkonofalski »

cgriswald wrote: post #232
dkonofalski wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely ignoring the hit to both the brand and experience that something like that would cause. There's a big reason why iOS users tend to spend more money on the platform than Android users do on the Google platform and a huge part of that is the trust built by Apple with their users. You can go into the Google Play store (which most people would think was the "official" and "safe" method of getting apps)…

You seem to be suggesting the only alternative to the App Store is a janky Apple-run Open App Store. All Apple has to do to offer an alternative is let people install Apps on their phones outside the App Store just like they can do on their Macs. People will still trust the App Store, but maybe a competitor comes along and maybe Netflix/Amazon etc use them or maybe they don’t.

I didn't suggest that at all. I suggested that it was a possible alternative simply because that's the only way something like that would be considered "official" still while allowing for any apps to be published.

There's no reason for Apple to offer that on their phones since it dilutes the customer experience. Anyone that would care about doing that can still do that via XCode by side-loading the apps.

Case in point - where's the competitor for the Mac App Store on macOS? There's not. Users have to do all the legwork themselves. That's literally no different than side-loading your own apps.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#254

Post by nickjj »

Look at platforms like Udemy (selling online courses).

They take 50% of your revenue and not only that, they also control the prices of your course by selling them for $10 year round (of which you'll get $5 for a ~5-10 hour video course that takes 4 months to make and it's also expected you offer 24/7/365 support).

Yes I know you can opt out of these things but then you're hidden from search results by default which defeats the entire purpose of using a marketplace.

As a content creator I despise marketplaces because you lose control over your business. You don't even get to contact your customers directly since details like emails are hidden from you and you either make or it fail based on their search engine's ranking algorithm.

As a content consumer, marketplaces make it pretty easy to find good things, but at the same time I feel like if you have good content, people would find you without a marketplace.

I can't wait until these marketplaces eventually bust from content creators just picking up and selling stuff on their own.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#255

Post by rashomon »

imgabe wrote: post #197
avar wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really screwed up even as a consumer. E.g. for things like Uber I've taken to always rating 5 stars regardless of my experience, because even if I have something bad to say do I really want to so nonchalantly be a cog in the machine of potentially robbing someone of their livelyhood?

Yeah, the way Uber ratings work it seems like there are only two ratings: "I had an acceptable experience" or "This person should lose their job".

It's the same for restaurants in low-volume areas. That under-4-star death knell is a killer for sales.

On the other hand, I love perusing those 3-star restaurants as I find so many hidden gems covered in the tears of LLC owners and bored hostesses.

If I were a lesser man, I totally am, I would write a book concerning that social theory called the Star Divide.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#256

Post by consto »

baby wrote: post #247
michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

Maybe people are over critical but the service and experience of a meal is not to be ignored. I'm sure you would agree that if they literally threw the food at you it wouldn't deserve a rating regardless of the food.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#257

Post by 1123581321 »

kartan wrote: post #192
rlanday wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

> but Apple's certainly adding value. Do roads add value? Should trucks pay a 30% of their cargo retail price in road tolls? I agree with your point that Apple adds value. I just do not see that as a justification to take a 30% share of all apps that run on their devices.

Comparing distribution of physical goods is a poor analogy as the variable costs are high, and low or zero for App Store developers. We know from tariffs that a 30% fee on mining or manufacturing increases costs and reduces trade, but despite Apple’s 30%, the cost of an app has been driven down. This suggests that a high revenue share of a software sale is viable in a way that a high revenue share of a truck load is not.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#258

Post by eisa01 »

baby wrote: post #247
michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

Why should only the food matter?

If I have to wait one hour to get the food, that is detrimental to the experience in my opinion

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#260

Post by ApostleMatthew »

dkonofalski wrote: post #217
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

That's not really a fair comparison since Apple has to curate the App Store and is 100% responsible for the service as well. It's not like you're buying an iPhone or iPad without knowing that all your apps come from the App Store and that's part of the value - unlike Android, you know exactly where the app is coming from, what it is and isn't allowed to do, and have an expectation that the app has been reasonably rev…

I think your first paragraph is a result of you viewing this from the perspective of someone knowledgeable about technology. The vast majority of people using Android phones get their apps exclusively from the Play Store and assume Android is exactly the same as iOS in that way.
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