Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 389 posts

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#251

Post by clan »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #71
lowpro wrote: post #26

I hate credit card fees as much as the next guy, but to be fair my credit card was the only way I could pay for things in Asia since I just lived there for 6 months. If I had used cash, the only ATM near me stole my friends debit card, and multiple people I know were robbed and pick-pocketed. My credit card insulated me from those risks, which I was fine paying an extra 1% for. Now that I’m back in America the risk i…

Yep. The US is reasonably safe in this regard, but I’ve had credit cards skimmed a handful of times. These cases were dealt with with little more than a quick call to custom service, but had it been my debit card that was skimmed, it would’ve been bad news. For this reason I carry only a small amount of cash (just enough for cash only bars/restaurants) and never carry my debit card. My primary payment method is credi…

Around here debit cards are protected in the same way as credit cards.

You are fully covered if you in no way have been negligent.

If the PIN code have been used you have a own risk of $173.

Have you been negligent the own risk goes up to $1255.

In very severe cases you can be made fully liable but that is very rare.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#252

Post by [deleted] »

caf wrote: post #196
smileysteve wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this because it discounts the high costs of cash controls. Cash has high costs that likely make electronic forms of payment competitive. You have - Employees skimming the till; - Theft insurance for a safe, the nightly amount in the safe - Managers balancing the cash registers with change/safe - Armored trucks picking up the money (2-3 men guarding the transfer) - Banks processing the money - Employee tim…

If this was the case then merchants would happily encourage people to use cards rather than cash.

[deleted]

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#253

Post by clan »

kalleboo wrote: post #230
m0rphy99 wrote: post #214

The penetration of credit cards into everyone's daily life is already too deep. Let's face it, at this point they already got everybody well locked up. Any attempts to resist from just a few companies here and there are really just futile.

Not really. Smartphone apps can be a game changer since they require so little infrastructure to adopt. Look at Venmo. In Sweden a banking revolution is taking place where an app similar to Venmo that instead was developed by a consortium of banks has quickly gotten mass adoption, recently also including at retail. I bought strawberries from a street stall using my phone.

The exact same is happening in Denmark. The huge players are under fire from new fintech startups.

It has been amazing to see how fast such apps gain penetration in the market.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#254

Post by donaltroddyn »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #71
lowpro wrote: post #26

I hate credit card fees as much as the next guy, but to be fair my credit card was the only way I could pay for things in Asia since I just lived there for 6 months. If I had used cash, the only ATM near me stole my friends debit card, and multiple people I know were robbed and pick-pocketed. My credit card insulated me from those risks, which I was fine paying an extra 1% for. Now that I’m back in America the risk i…

Yep. The US is reasonably safe in this regard, but I’ve had credit cards skimmed a handful of times. These cases were dealt with with little more than a quick call to custom service, but had it been my debit card that was skimmed, it would’ve been bad news. For this reason I carry only a small amount of cash (just enough for cash only bars/restaurants) and never carry my debit card. My primary payment method is credi…

My own experience is that the United States is an extremely risky place to use a credit or debit card, and it's the only place where I've ever had a credit card skimmed (from living and travelling around Europe and Brazil) - three separate times. It's also the only place where I could almost never make contactless or chip+pin payments, and had to swipe and sign.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#255

Post by WorkLifeBalance »

Nursie wrote: post #150
westoque wrote: post #24

These kinds of problems (swipe fees, etc) is where I believe cryptocurrencies shine. Having a fee payment which is reasonable and fast confirmation times would solve this problem immediately removing the need for third parties.

This is where government regulation shines - 0.3% max fee in the EU

And only 0.2% for debit cards.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#256

Post by nine_k »

bdowling wrote: post #213
cm2187 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

The charge is to the merchant, not to the customer. In general, the price marked on the good factors in the credit card fees, because almost everyone uses credit cards. So, if a buyer uses cash or a debit card, he should always negotiate for a 1-2% discount. Edit: To clarify, some U.S. merchants do charge a "credit card fee" or enforce a minimum charge amount to all customers using credit cards for their purchases. I…

Indeed, Ikea in Brooklyn offers 1% discount if you pay with a debit card; didn't check elsewhere but likely it's the same in their stores over the US.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#257

Post by maxerickson »

donaltroddyn wrote: post #254
kitsunesoba wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The US is reasonably safe in this regard, but I’ve had credit cards skimmed a handful of times. These cases were dealt with with little more than a quick call to custom service, but had it been my debit card that was skimmed, it would’ve been bad news. For this reason I carry only a small amount of cash (just enough for cash only bars/restaurants) and never carry my debit card. My primary payment method is credi…

My own experience is that the United States is an extremely risky place to use a credit or debit card, and it's the only place where I've ever had a credit card skimmed (from living and travelling around Europe and Brazil) - three separate times. It's also the only place where I could almost never make contactless or chip+pin payments, and had to swipe and sign.

Typical card transactions now use chip with no pin. They maybe collect a signature electronically (but I think this may be mostly to make the customer happy).

Swipe is far from dead though.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#258

Post by kryptiskt »

caf wrote: post #196
smileysteve wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this because it discounts the high costs of cash controls. Cash has high costs that likely make electronic forms of payment competitive. You have - Employees skimming the till; - Theft insurance for a safe, the nightly amount in the safe - Managers balancing the cash registers with change/safe - Armored trucks picking up the money (2-3 men guarding the transfer) - Banks processing the money - Employee tim…

If this was the case then merchants would happily encourage people to use cards rather than cash.

They very much do in Sweden, many places are going cash-free.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#259

Post by lifeisstillgood »

alkonaut wrote: post #204
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #153

The article mentions technological alternatives - what are they? There is no way blockchain can fill this void, so .... what can do electronic payment if not the giant card networks? interesting problem

Many countries have (as yet) free electronic transfer services (Vipps in Norway, Swish In Sweden etc). Originally used mostly for p2p transfers, it’s showing up more and more as an accepted payment form. Obviously these systems also have costs they need to cover, but there is a good chance they will remain much lower than card fees. The big issue with them is that they are national. Even if every individual and many…

A glance at wikipedia makes this a mobile app that requests transfers from bank account to bank account via a participating bank.

Which is basically replacing visa with the Norwegian bank.

I guess I have never wondered about it before, but i am surprised there is not a international common payment request protocol - "move 100 from a to b". Each bank could have their own gateway but as long as it understood the protocol ...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#260

Post by yourapostasy »

m0rphy99 wrote: post #214

The penetration of credit cards into everyone's daily life is already too deep. Let's face it, at this point they already got everybody well locked up. Any attempts to resist from just a few companies here and there are really just futile.

You might not have visited China, then. If you stay within the WeChat payment network system instead of stepping out through bank interchanges, you see end-to-end payment friction at well lower than 1%. There is plenty of room to innovate yet, and drive costs even lower for this utility, which arguably can be a government-delivered utility at some point in the future.
Post reply on HN