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Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

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Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#251

Post by JetSpiegel »

code_duck wrote: post #227
FussyZeus wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every instance throughout history, the $weapon wielded by the peasant has been vastly inferior to the one wielded by the noble's army, guards, etc. In fact one could argue that the peasantry has never been less outgunned that they are currently, when previous uprisings made do with sticks and rocks, and the heads of the wealthy still rolled in the end. The fact is that the select few protect themselves with rolls…

It’s hard to be sure exactly what scenario people are picturing when they speculate about this. If you want an example of urban warfare vs. a modern military, check out Iraq about 10 year ago. While it was difficult, for them, guess who won. As far as the rest of the theorizing, we would have to be on common ground about the entire scenario before it’s worth speculating about. For example, I don’t know what food you’…

> If you want an example of urban warfare vs. a modern military, check out Iraq about 10 year ago. While it was difficult, for them, guess who won.

Sure, Shock and Awe was successful, but it was nothing more than a raid. The US Army did not conquer Iraq, at least on the medium term. They barely control most of the territory.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#252

Post by JumpCrisscross »

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #248
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is in the midst of a new gilded age Why not golden instead of gilded? Per capita incomes are at an all time high, in real terms, and growing; violent crime per capita a historical low; and life expectancy high, though it could be higher. We are on the verge of tremendous technological advances in propulsion, AI, biology and energy. And more people are educated enough to wonder at those advancements than eve…

Do you really not understand how per capita income is not a meaningful statistic in a situation where income inequality is extremely high?

> Do you really not understand how per capita income is not a meaningful statistic in a situation where income inequality is extremely high?

Real median household income in the United States is up 20% from 1984. At 0.5% a year, that's less than it could be. But it's still objectively better than it was then, and much better than it was after WWI. Life today is better--for most Americans--than it was at virtually any time in the past.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#253

Post by csomar »

These numbers are not fair and square.

Let's say someone has $100. Cold Cash.

Let's say someone has $100. In xyz Asset.

Comparing both in terms of wealth is not fair and square.

First. They might have different purchasing power. Bezos can't liquidate $150bn of AMZ stock without slippage. If he could, then there must be another party willing to put $150bn of cash. Not many such parties in this world have that kinda cash laying around.

Second. They have different volatilities. $100 in cash is worth roughly $98 by next year. $100 in xyz asset might be $50 or $200.

Third. Holding an asset might have unrealized tax positions. I don't know the fiscal laws of America. But I think bezos will have to pay a significant portion of the liquidated asset since he is going to make profit. If you have $100 in cash, you don't have to pay anything. You already "realized" whatever profit.

But sure Bloomberg and Forbes would like to make headlines. That's their business.

What I'm trying to say is that this number is meaningless. Literally. Some asset management company has $6trillion under their management. That's x40 times more $$ power than bezos. But the bosses of these companies don't get as many headlines. Have you heard of BlackRock?

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#254

Post by ttoinou »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #235
ttoinou wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so Bezos could buy a house for roughly 1 in every 330 adults in the U.S. Looks like you were. J. Bezos does not have 150 billions baguette and cannot buy 150 billions baguette with what you think his wealth is

No, "could" doesn't mean "should". Saying someone "could" do something is speaking in the hypothetical which is most certainly not suggesting they do that something.

And what does the GP means then ?

  He wouldn't be able to do it

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#255

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dragonwriter wrote: post #148
CM30 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you get robots replacing guys with guns, then you've got a whole second set of problems to deal with them. Namely, cybersecurity goes from being annoying to being potentially lethal.

Which, if you think about it, is a slight recasting of the same failure mode: formal control of the instruments of force can become detached from actual control.

It's the same failure mode, but it's a much worse problem. For the (human) police to join the insurrection, they have to be persuaded that the insurrection is either morally right or too big to fight (which may mean that it's too big for the police to consider arresting/killing them all to be an acceptable solution). For the robots with guns to join the revolution just takes one really good hacker.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#256

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

koube wrote: post #241
ahelwer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your synonymous use of "educated" with "neoliberal" is notable. Those who ignore the views of the workers because they are not articulated in language they find acceptable do so at their own historical peril.

I didn't advocate any position besides that violent revolution is improbable. Is the improbability of violent revolution a neoliberal concept? Do I ignore workers when I state that discussions around police obesity are not grounded economic discourse? Is there any universe in which this conversation leads to a reasonable place?

>Do I ignore workers when I state that discussions around police obesity are not grounded economic discourse?

Well it's not economic discourse at all, it's political discourse.

>Is there any universe in which this conversation leads to a reasonable place?

You're against the conversation in general? It seems that you think discussion of inequality leads inevitably to the idea that we should engage in violent revolution. If that's the case maybe violent revolution is the most reasonable place.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#257

Post by e12e »

paulie_a wrote: post #246
e12e wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One in three households or thereabouts. It's certainly not "most" - but not sure "vocal minority" is accurate either? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/ameri...

A house hold often includes more than one person. Those other individuals are not gun owners. Gun owners are a fairly small group with a very powerful lobby that needs to be ignored.

This (and the sibling) strikes me as an odd interpretation - there are more guns than people in the US - most households with any guns, have more than one gun. And as I see it living in a household with guns, generally means access to guns?

So I readily read one in three households, as strictly more than one in three persons - have access to guns?

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#258

Post by pm90 »

code_duck wrote: post #227
FussyZeus wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every instance throughout history, the $weapon wielded by the peasant has been vastly inferior to the one wielded by the noble's army, guards, etc. In fact one could argue that the peasantry has never been less outgunned that they are currently, when previous uprisings made do with sticks and rocks, and the heads of the wealthy still rolled in the end. The fact is that the select few protect themselves with rolls…

It’s hard to be sure exactly what scenario people are picturing when they speculate about this. If you want an example of urban warfare vs. a modern military, check out Iraq about 10 year ago. While it was difficult, for them, guess who won. As far as the rest of the theorizing, we would have to be on common ground about the entire scenario before it’s worth speculating about. For example, I don’t know what food you’…

People can be extremely resilient, especially when their lives are at hand. I don't think you've thought this through. A true civil war where the US military is fighting its own citizens won't be like the Iraq war at all. There is likely to be mass defection of soldiers who are unwilling to fight their own countrymen. Massive civil disobedience where taxpayers stop paying their taxes, farmers defect to the sides that they most recognize with.

Its not a scenario that I really want to think about since its so brutal. But it can happen, and the war is likely to be a prolonged battle.

Not to mention, the unrest in the Motherland will let other rogue forces run amok internationally as they jostle for supremacy over each other. I can't see any of that ending well.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#259

Post by mozumder »

tjr225 wrote: post #250
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the democratic establishment does policies that are very similar to republicans, get all their money from the 1% and corporations, and I’d be surprised if progressives manage to break out.

And many Democratic voters find the current, establishment of DNC politicians to be delusionally far right of their constituents. See: Bernie, Ocasio-Cortez, and what I believe will be many more Dems with a leaning towards progressive policy.

There's not that many, though.

The vast majority of Democrats like corporate employment.

Re: Jeff Bezos Becomes the Richest Man in Modern History, Topping $150B

#260

Post by jeffreyrogers »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #160
olfactory wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today we have a military industrial complex supported by both parties and our most vital student loans (championed by our "left" party) come with no bankruptcy protection. We do have a very strong Federal government, but it's designed to funnel money to various interest groups. By making compute infrastructure affordable and by making consumer review data available for all products, Bezos is a champion of the little…

Completely agree. Bezos is great. This is not so much an attack on Bezos as it is an attack on a system that let's 30 single individuals amass more wealth than the bottom 3 billion.

If you have a checking account you probably have more liquid assets than the bottom 3 billion.
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