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The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

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Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#251

Post by s3r3nity »

RandallBrown wrote: post #117

To throw some more anecdotes in with the rest of the comments, I love open offices. I've had my own office and found it lonely and boring. I never got less work done than at that job. Everything took longer because I had to stand up and walk to talk to my team. Instant messaging sort of worked, but if they didn't respond immediately, you didn't know if it was because they missed the message or they weren't actually i…

I don't love a _fully_ open office, but I do enjoy some middle ground.

I think my best working experience was when I worked at a startup where there was a big "bullpen," but it was mostly for customer service; all other teams had massive conference rooms where you would have 3-5 people _max_ in that room, with the potential to shut the door if that team wanted privacy or more silence than other teams.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#252

Post by telchar »

loco5niner wrote: post #235
WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get any generic in-ear earphones and thread those under a pair of 3M peltor optime III ear defenders. You can listen to even fairly quiet music and you won't hear any conversations around you.

I've done this. I have a whole collection of over-the-ear ear-protection. I can still hear my co-workers. It also made my tinnitus worse. Thanks though.

You could go the opposite route: good earplugs with good noise canceling over-ear headphones. The advantage of this over the other setup is that the minimum effective volume from music is lower, protecting against tinnitus. I had the same issues and found this setup works well for me.

As an added bonus the obvious rigamarole I have to go through when a coworker taps me on the shoulder makes them more likely to send an email next time.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#253

Post by HelloNurse »

s3r3nity wrote: post #247

Every time I read these threads against the open-plan office, I think back to two arguments that an old boss put forth for them that I haven't been able to find a good answer for: 1) If it works for some of the most successful tech companies on the planet (Google / Facebook / Amazon,) why can't it work for us? 2) Prove to me that the loss in productivity is higher than the cost / investment necessary to build everyon…

The loss in productivity includes productive people who leave for a better workplace. Does your boss need research to understand the value of not alienating and driving away employees?

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#254

Post by VohuMana »

I agree with the article. My company transitioned to open office which I was very much against, but once the move happened I bought some nice comfortable headphones and adjusted to the environment, it was always loud, cramped, and lacking privacy of any kind. It wasn't until I switched to a new team that had offices that I realized just how much of an affect the open office had on me. I had hours of uninterrupted time and managed to get the tasks that would usually take me a day or 2 in open office, done in just a couple hours.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#255

Post by ghaff »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #217

Companies treat programmers as costs that should be minimized. They manage programmers like children (toys and treats) or stenographers(typing pools) because it is cheap. Whereas, lawyers in law firms are considered revenue generators and they are treated that way. When I switched from programming to lawyering, one of the biggest differences I noticed was how the law firm staff and office manager were always trying t…

One suspects that businesses in general have tilted too far towards having highly paid professionals doing everything self-service just because they can and the costs are sort of hidden.

Playing travel agent for an hour suddenly makes a lot less sense when it keeps you from billing out at $500/hr. for some client.

ADDED: The one time I did some legal work (for an expert witness report) the ticking clock made me very aware of what was a good use of my time and what wasn't.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#256

Post by zamalek »

RandallBrown wrote: post #117

To throw some more anecdotes in with the rest of the comments, I love open offices. I've had my own office and found it lonely and boring. I never got less work done than at that job. Everything took longer because I had to stand up and walk to talk to my team. Instant messaging sort of worked, but if they didn't respond immediately, you didn't know if it was because they missed the message or they weren't actually i…

For me it's the large volumes of space. Our office is split up into multiple large open areas, and my current one (12 people) is next to a giant window and is generously laid out. I find the whole situatioun much more relaxing than being cooped up in a small room, I can think clearer likely because of my better mood.

I do have noise cancelling headphones, but I always have music when working - even when I'm working from home.

What we also have, which helps a ton, is an abundance of meeting rooms - some with a tiny table and four chairs. We'll still have a two minute discussion at our desks, but instinctively head to a room for longer discussions. I'm not sure if this was an intentional solution to the cons of open offices - but it seems extremely effective.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#257

Post by loco5niner »

s3r3nity wrote: post #247

Every time I read these threads against the open-plan office, I think back to two arguments that an old boss put forth for them that I haven't been able to find a good answer for: 1) If it works for some of the most successful tech companies on the planet (Google / Facebook / Amazon,) why can't it work for us? 2) Prove to me that the loss in productivity is higher than the cost / investment necessary to build everyon…

>1) If it works for some of the most successful tech companies on the planet (Google / Facebook / Amazon,) why can't it work for us?

Have these companies always been open-office, or is this something they've recently moved to? These companies have been successful for years and can probably absorb the productivity losses an open office generates for a while.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#258

Post by smelendez »

beaconstudios wrote: post #210
tombert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. When I suggested putting on a low-budget 50's monster movie on as background noise (e.g. Gamera, Godzilla, The Giant Claw, something that's amusing to look at for thirty seconds, laugh a bit, but not overly distracting), people act almost offended that I would waste company time like that. But if the TV has some form of ball on it, drop everything.

the important people in the office both get to dictate what's allowed, and are in my experience more likely to be extroverted/sports-watchy types. Thus they exploit their position to watch sports with the other important people and who cares what the nerds think/want.

I think people are generally more tolerant of live events. I've been in offices where everyone's watching a political inauguration, or dramatic rescue, etc.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#259

Post by maltalex »

larrik wrote: post #73
maltalex wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument doesn't hold water. Employee time is usually a lot more expensive than the space they occupy. At least in tech. You could save quite a lot of money on furniture if everyone sat with their laptops on the floor. But in reality that would be more expensive since the difference in productivity will outweigh the furniture cost.

Ah, but accountants don't measure productivity, only cost. It doesn't matter if it takes 3 times as long to ship your product, the only way they'd justify the higher cost of the office is if it meant cutting jobs.

> Ah, but accountants don't measure productivity, only cost.

Accountants don't get to decide the office layout in my experience.

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