The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand • Hacker News Board

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#251

Post by mdorazio » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

exegete wrote: post #223

curun1r wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.

Also from the article: >There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean that ladders made of conductive elements are generally just too dangerous to use. >"I think there'…

I don't understand this. Fiberglass is non-conductive, so that's not really a reason to not use non-wood ladders. It is also generally stronger and more durable for the same weight.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#252

Post by callmeed » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #219

curun1r wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.

Coming from NYC, it is somewhat surprising to see such anger directed at fire departments. Here, the FDNY seems universally loved.

I don't think its anger. It's just that police and fire departments have garnered this "can do no wrong" mindset to the extent that trying to fix what they actually do wrong (waste money) has turned into a political third rail.

Fewer fires but larger departments [0], 6-figure trucks driving to fender benders, pension spiking, minimum staffing requirements & huge overtime pay (union-negotiated), etc.

Look, I appreciate what first responders do. I just don't think they're above reproach.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/09/04/05316abe-...

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#253

Post by leesalminen » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:45 PM UTC

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #219

curun1r wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.

Coming from NYC, it is somewhat surprising to see such anger directed at fire departments. Here, the FDNY seems universally loved.

Can confirm. Grew up in the area. Lots of neighbors, family and friends are FDNY. Everyone loves them.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#254

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:54 PM UTC

eigenvector wrote: post #158

chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Americans seem to take a lot of pride in their fire brigades - their fire engines are still shiny and polished with more traditional signage and the fire fighters still wear helmets with their traditional shape. In the United Kingdom they wear more simple uniforms and the engines are just a box shape with no bells any more - seems a shame. Usually it's UK the has more ceremony in these kind of things.

One of the biggest differences between Europe and North America in this regard is that in European cities, emergency vehicles have to be designed to fit a 1000-year-old city in terms of width, turning radius, maximum weight, etc. This leads to a much more compact shape and shorter wheelbase. In North America streets are designed to fit emergency vehicles. You're not allowed to build a street so narrow that a fire eng…

[deleted]

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#255

Post by asveikau » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:57 PM UTC

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #219

curun1r wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at SFFD giving any shits about costs. This is the same department that power grabbed emergency medical response away from dedicated paramedics in ambulances. Responding in full ladder trucks to take care of drunk homeless people...yeah, they do that, costing millions every year in added expenses and road repairs. But good for them for saving a few bucks on ladders, that must make a huge difference.

Coming from NYC, it is somewhat surprising to see such anger directed at fire departments. Here, the FDNY seems universally loved.

I'm a transplant, but in my casual observations living here it seems like SFFD is pretty impressive and worthy of respect. I've seen neighbors call for minor issues, the response time has been very good and the calls taken seriously. It's almost as if they're keeping cultural memory of 1906 alive, i.e. they really don't want widespread fires.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#256

Post by lvturner » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 10:59 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #238

gshulegaard wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you are referring to. I was involved in a motorcycle accident in October of 2017 and I was treated by SFFD paramedics in an ambulance.

Why does the fire department respond to a medical emergency?

Because Ambulances tend not to carry the kind of heavy duty cutting equipment required to get people out of mangled cars

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#257

Post by firemancoder » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 11:04 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #238

gshulegaard wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you are referring to. I was involved in a motorcycle accident in October of 2017 and I was treated by SFFD paramedics in an ambulance.

Why does the fire department respond to a medical emergency?

Often times fire engines and trucks are staffed with 3 EMTs and at least 1 Paramedic. Then the ambulance with 2 paramedics, or 1 paramedic 1 EMT arrives.

It's all about level of care. Overkill for a twisted ankle sure but crucial for a cardiac or other life threatening event.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#258

Post by firemancoder » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 11:07 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #13

legitster wrote: post #2

If you get a chance to visit a Smokejumper base, I highly recommend it. One of the things you learn is that everyone on the team is required to make all of their own equipment by hand. So all of these highly trained, ex-military guys spend days on end doing nothing but sewing clothes and packing parachutes. The reasons described: - Cheaper than contracting out everything - They have a better idea of the exact specifi…

It makes sense for a job where 95% of the time is spent waiting for an emergency to react to .

Not true, especially in big city departments. Sure there are days when you run 3 or 4 calls and you get a lot of downtime, but most departments run 3000 or more calls a year. Do the math.

But yeah utilizing their downtime is smart. And you're gonna build a damn good ladder and not cut corners if you know you're going to be standing on it.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#259

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 11:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #238

gshulegaard wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you are referring to. I was involved in a motorcycle accident in October of 2017 and I was treated by SFFD paramedics in an ambulance.

Why does the fire department respond to a medical emergency?

Because “fire department” is the label put on the general purpose non-law-enforcement emergency response unit of most local governments.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#260

Post by ladders » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

ive spent most of my last 10 years on a ladder due to my job. This is absurd. Aluminum ladders require practically no maintenance and are far far lighter. Weight of a ladder being a significant factor in set up speed, required manpower for set up, and ease of handling. A wood ladder is completely impractical. Fiberglass however is another great option.