So as a private citizen, I can pool some money and get the same level of tracking that American intellignece services have of individual cell hardware?
Sounds like a win for the citizens.
US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
251–260 of 648 posts
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#252It's so strange--I never would have expected the boot of tyranny to come from private corporations, but here we are. And what all this proves is that technology is value-neutral and can wipe us all out, or just make us incredibly miserable, if we let it. Hopefully there will be a way to opt out. Otherwise, I should start selling faraday bags for devices. Probably should anyways.
> Hopefully there will be a way to opt out
Don't use a cellphone.
See also: the FBI can't wiretap your phone lines if you never use a telephone.
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hasn't Foursquare been doing this and nothing but this for ten years now?
Foursquare is selling business services based on the data they collect, not the data itself (as far as I know).
They sell direct location analytics: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/290543
This is mostly a distinction without a difference, because for firms that do this, one of those "business services" is providing a thin layer of analysis over the underlying data.
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#254Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…
Making a cell phone out of a pi with a sim card and gps daughter board is sounding less and less crazy each day. Really looking forward to when the librem phone starts shipping. I wonder if they've really been thorough enough vetting hardware for those bare-metal security issues. This is at once staggering and completely unsurprising that companies would violate user trust in such a way and sell data without proper v…
Even a RPI won't help you unless you can build all of the software for the microprocessors which drive the wireless stack. Even then, vendors (e.g. Qualcomm) will already have their software on the chip when you get it.
A completely open spec, open source set of components is what the community has desired for a long time. As standards get more complex and evolve faster, 4G and beyond, it becomes less possible to keep up in the open.
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#255Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…
if you want to get it to blow up then (based on past experience of what seems to catch regulator/legislator interest) I'd say that someone tracking the locations of a load of politicians for a while, finding things of interest about places they've visited and then publishing on a news outlet would do the job.
Will it blow up, even if the public is aware?
When Snowden revealed the extent of NSA activities, it caused a momentary uproar but the people moved on pretty quickly after that. As far as I know (and let me know if I am wrong!!), there was no fallout for the government, and business continues as before.
So I am not sure if people will care this time either.
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#256The worst part is there isn't any possible way I know of to defend yourself against this other than not having a phone.
Until/unless they modify the law - turning off your phone thwarts it. While your phone is powered off, it has no ability to track & record your location movements. Obviously your active location will then be picked back up after you power it on, it won't have a record of anything inbetween. A simple example of limiting the invasiveness using this approach, would be to have your phone on only at work & home, or simila…
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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
some of crapware can be avoided by using custom ROMs, but not all of it. For example: Qualcomm IZat location services and other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs.
Hopefully this shows people how deep it is.
If all that is claim in here isn't conspiracy, how can it stay a secret?
Isn't it the reason wikileaks was created in the first place?
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not in the interest of insurance companies to lower premiums. They only do it if competition is eating them alive. Geico has been raising their margins ever so slightly. I bet they are also the purchasers of ungodly amounts of data for targeting marketing. Insurance companies #1 goal is to make maximum profits for their shareholders without getting caught with their pants down.
GEICO is a private company. There are no shareholders. GEICO is owned by Birkshire Hathaway which is owned by Warren Buffett. I am sure your point is still valid with publicly traded insurance companies. http://investsnips.com/complete-list-of-insurance-companies-...
> GEICO is owned by Birkshire Hathaway which is owned by Warren Buffett.
Berkshire Hathaway is publicly traded. Warren Buffet owns 36.8% of it.[1]
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#259Carriers have been providing these services to 3rd party providers since at least 2006 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/feb/01/news.g2 A few points to note: * Obtaining consent is entirely left to the provider to implement. It does not appear to have any auditing. A provider can query any number they like. * The opt-in process used by many providers is easy to exploit, by spoofing SMS replies or abusing th…
Is it even considered an exploit?
It's a cell carrier providing data about the radio communications between hardware they own and someone else. At a moral level, seems somewhat equivalent to a web server providing data about clients that access the server.
To opt out, stop using some third-party corporation's owned hardware to route your communications near lightspeed around the world. Hey, the Amish communities may have something in their overall philosophy of "Don't be beholden to strangers who aren't part of your community."
Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
#260Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…
For those who want to try out LocationSmart, you can use it here: https://www.locationsmart.com/try/ They were about two blocks off, and located me by cell tower. Apparently they don't have (or at least don't admit to having) A-GPS level data for me.
Tested and same result.
I have a strong suspicion that it intentionally places you some distance from where it knows you actually are. Unless there is some underlying reason why it would never be 100% accurate -- I've seen dozens of people post their results and every time it's 1-300 meters off.
And it's not just "no one tests while under the cell tower" because the location it gave me was 150 meters in the opposite direction of the cell tower that I can see out my window. And the location it gave was smack in the middle of a neighborhood I know well and know to be free of cell towers. Or I'm just paranoid.