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Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

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Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#251
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the 40-45 hour work week is cultural. Maybe if society was set up for a 20 or 60 hour work week, we'd see the same type of productivity cliff.

Before the 40-hour work week society was indeed set up for longer work weeks, and workers organized to reduce it. There's historical context for many countries given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

And before industrialisation, working times, days, and years were fairly considerably less.

Employment is much more constant in some trades than in others. In the greater part of manufacturers, a journeyman may be pretty sure of employment almost every day in the year that he is able to work. A mason or bricklayer, on the contrary, can work neither in hard frost nor in foul weather, and his employment at all other times depends upon the occasional calls of his customers. He is liable, in consequence, to be frequently without any....

Some workmen, indeed, when they can earn in four days what will maintain them through the week, will be idle the other three. This, however, is by no means the case with the greater part. Workmen, on the contrary, when they are liberally paid by the piece, are very apt to overwork themselves, and to ruin their health and constitution in a few years. A carpenter in London, and in some other places, is not supposed to last in his utmost vigour above eight years. Something of the same kind happens in many other trades, in which the workmen are paid by the piece, as they generally are in manufactures, and even in country labour, wherever wages are higher than ordinary. Almost every class of artificers is subject to some peculiar infirmity occasioned by excessive application to their peculiar species of work.

Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_...

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_...

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about China or how pronounced these differences are, but you see the same thing even in the "Millennial" generation everyone loves to talk about here in the US. You'll find a drastic difference between younger Millennials and older Millennials, to the point where Buzzfeed is writing articles comparing the two. No matter how much people want to pretend that "Millennial" is actually a real thing, it's no…

Compared to someone born in 1950 or 2020, you have a whole lot in common.

Compared to someone born in 1810, someone born in 2020 and 1950 have a lot in common. Compared to someone born in 1215, someone born in 2020 and 1810 have a lot in common. It still doesn't make much sense to lump them together and generalize their behaviors.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion serves, in modern society, essentially the same function as abandonment.

Or adoption. Or I mean... it's not like people don't still abandon their babies if they really want to.

You can even avoid legal consequences by abandoning them at a fire station: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or adoption. Or I mean... it's not like people don't still abandon their babies if they really want to.

You can even avoid legal consequences by abandoning them at a fire station: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

Yes, but in the Roman world they left them at trash dumps and if they didn't simply die of exposure they were free for anyone to take as slaves. So I think we're still doing a bit better.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#255

Poor Chinese Millennials. They are frustrated their country turned dictatorship. They are constantly monitored by the big brother, social credit score, public cameras that have facial recognition. Their words censored by wechat, and the great firewall. If they say something wrong, they will be watched and put on no travel list. There's no moving up the ladder; they're stuck trying to buy a $500k house with a meager $…

Every country has positives and negatives, you just listed the negatives. Have you ever been to China recently? The major cities there are 10 years ahead of the West. No one uses cash anymore in China. You use your mobile phone to pay for everything... even the street food vendor or mom and pop stores accept Alipay or WeChat Pay. Public transportation is clean and efficient; new stops (for subway) and new routes (hig…

That's what they used to say about Stalinist Russia and the fascist states.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#256
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Chinese (non-STEM) grads have it worse, amazingly enough. The central government demanded more graduates at any cost, threw money at the problem and they ended up with corruption, very expensive facilities and many times more graduates with questionable skills in subjects that mostly aren't yet in demand.

This all sounds so familiar too. :) Is a global problem.

Why though? I don't think globalization is the culprit.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful with generalizing. Esp. with southerners in one bin, and northerners in the other bin.

Sure. However, if South China and North China were actually different countries, you would notice a distinct differences in the trends between both. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan, you might not notice much difference in CPC support between the province and the island.

Fujian is quite isolated from the rest of China. Until the modern era, the easiest way to get there was by sea.

And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan

Parts of Fujian are claimed by Taiwan.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. However, if South China and North China were actually different countries, you would notice a distinct differences in the trends between both. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan, you might not notice much difference in CPC support between the province and the island.

Fujian is quite isolated from the rest of China. Until the modern era, the easiest way to get there was by sea. And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan Parts of Fujian are claimed by Taiwan.

Fujianese are also the most emigrant Chinese, it is rare to find one there who doesn’t have more than a few relatives abroad.

A special case to be sure.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#259
post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

I'd like to see three things to solve this kind of issue. 1) The elimination of unpaid overtime for anyone that isn't a 'corporate office able to hire employees at will'. 2) Required 'typical hours' in employment contracts; companies can't pay out less than this unless the employee agrees, and the employee cannot be forced to work MORE unless they agree. 3) All firings have to be for cause.

All firings for cause will reduce hiring. It will create more illiquidity in the labor market, drive down wages and reduce mobility and efficiency. Look at the French labor market if you want to see how that nightmare plays out. 10%+ unemployment and a vast increase in time-limited, non-permanent work.

I don’t owe you a job. If I don’t need you any more, why the hell should I be forced to owe you?

Are you required to buy the same amount of groceries each week? Why not? Same for labor. When you need less, you buy less, when you need more, you buy more.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#260
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds so familiar too. :) Is a global problem.

Why though? I don't think globalization is the culprit.

Central planning is the culprit. The free market works when it is allowed to work.
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