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YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#251
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want people to learn when the stakes are low. I totally agree with this. However, I'm not sure that students in middle/high school realize that the stakes are, in fact, low. The teachers and programs emphasize exactly the opposite. "Oh this is going on your permanent record", whatever that is. "If you screw this up there's no way you'll be ready for university-level classes." On and on, and what a load of bull…

I think that they think the stakes are in fact higher than they are is the point.

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#252
post #216
post #183

I think the solution to this is...classes have homework assignments throughout the semesters, but your final paper is one that you write in class. And it's like 50% of your grade. The purpose of the homework assignments throughout the semester is to prepare for the final. If you ace the final, even having paid for essays - then congrats you were able to learn. Cheating is too easy now. There's a website where you can…

> I think the solution to this is...classes have homework assignments throughout the semesters, but your final paper is one that you write in class. And it's like 50% of your grade. The purpose of the homework assignments throughout the semester is to prepare for the final. If you ace the final, even having paid for essays - then congrats you were able to learn. Isn't this a blue book exam?

Yes but those have fallen out of fashion because students don't like high-stakes objective hard-to-cheat tests. (And there is some argument against a brief timed written test as an assessment for a whole semester. A friendly but rigorous oral exam would be better.

Also, you can cheat a blue book test by hiring a stand-in. There's a story about Ted Kennedy being caught at a pub by his TA, at a time when he was supposedly taking a final exam at Harvard.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#253
post #183

I think the solution to this is...classes have homework assignments throughout the semesters, but your final paper is one that you write in class. And it's like 50% of your grade. The purpose of the homework assignments throughout the semester is to prepare for the final. If you ace the final, even having paid for essays - then congrats you were able to learn. Cheating is too easy now. There's a website where you can…

> I've even seen websites that give solutions to Kumon homeowork. For those who don't know Kumon - it's an after school curriculum to help kids develop academically, to get to grade level if they are behind, of to accelerate ahead even further if they are already ahead. What's the point of cheating on those... Smh. Cheating at Kumon is pointless. It's the process that matters, the end result is meaningless.

If your parents force you to do Kumon, you might cheat to complete worksheets

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you really not understand that railing against the system is not the same thing as advocating cheating, as you seem to be doing? and really? cheating is only an issue in artificial constructs like academia? so if i design a building and crib the stress analysis from another building, it's ok because that's not an artifical situation? it seems academia really did fail you, as your argument just falls apart prima fa…

My point is that cheating is at worst a violation of rules/contracts. I'm saying there's a different way of thinking to understand why somethings are wrong -- not just that they are wrong, but the underlying reasons as well. Every example that has been provided could be counted as wrong by some other existing real world standard. In the case of copying the stress analysis, that is called FRAUD in the real world. I so…

You keep failing to explain the difference between academic fraud and commercial fraud.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#255

This reminds me of a story from my AI professor in college. Not exactly his words, but it was something like... "You have to do all of your work on your own. But let's say you decided to copy someone else's homework. Well, to make sure you don't just plagiarize it, you're going to start changing variables and function names, and maybe alter the structure of the code altogether. As it turns out, the more you alter the…

I may not have grasped the intended point to be made from your quote, but I don't see how changed variables names or functions or whatever results in the understanding of the logic.

They mean that if you can change it enough to not be detected as plagiarism, you must be rewriting it in your own ideas, aka learning.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#256
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner is finishing their masters in China currently (native Chinese). The levels of cheating that go on within her course alone are mind boggling: 1. Girls asking their would-be boyfriends to complete their essays and attend modules. 2. Purchasing completed essays from Taobao. 3. Copy pasting others work from Baidu with only name alterations. 4. Paying exam setters for exam questions. Of course this is anecdotal…

I guess this might explains where there are so many cheaters in online games that are Chinese. Results are prioritized about integrity and self-respect I suppose.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#257
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that they think the stakes are in fact higher than they are is the point.

This is a good point. I had thought that my high school grades were extremely high stakes, even though they weren't. Of course, now I know how silly I was. If the stakes weren't so high, I wonder if I would have been more tempted to cheat to get more free time. I think not, but no way to know for sure because can't run that experiment anymore. On the other hand, in countries with huge populations like China and India…

I've heard about plenty of people who won large payouts in the lottery, it doesn't mean I'd go to them for financial advice. Places that rely on a single test or data point create perverse incentives to inflate the data point. I was a fairly intelligent student throughout most of my school career, but I flunked more than one class in college because of bad teachers who were incapable of teaching the subject matter(There was a single student who passed with a C in that class every other student failed, I passed easily with a different teacher) or real life issues taking priority (working a full time job distracts from grades). I agree with your statement that the issue is complicated, but perhaps some things shouldn't be simplified.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#258
post #232
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent TIFU (Today I Fucked Up) on Reddit, depending if you believe it - I'm inclined not to, described such a situation: https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/8g33nv/tifu_by_plagia... They were allegedly expelled for plagiarising a 500 word essay. > She sent me to the dean with the recommendation that I be expelled. Now the dean told me I can't graduate. I spent 4 years working on an engineering degree. I have ov…

Aren't those the artificial high stakes we're talking about? I'm asking what inherently high-stakes situation that is preparing you for.

For a real world situation? Just look at the Google vs Uber trial. IP theft and corporate espionage is incredibly high stakes. You can presumably make a lot of money selling secrets, but if you're rumbled, that's your career over.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that cheating is at worst a violation of rules/contracts. I'm saying there's a different way of thinking to understand why somethings are wrong -- not just that they are wrong, but the underlying reasons as well. Every example that has been provided could be counted as wrong by some other existing real world standard. In the case of copying the stress analysis, that is called FRAUD in the real world. I so…

You keep failing to explain the difference between academic fraud and commercial fraud.

Commercial fraud: > The theory of contract espoused here demonstrates that fraud is properly viewed as a type of theft. Suppose Karen buys a bucket of apples from Ethan for $20. Ethan represents the things in the bucket as being apples, in fact, as apples of a certain nature, that is, as being fit for their normal purpose of being eaten. Karen conditions the transfer of title to her $20 on Ethan's not knowingly engaging in 'fraudulent' activities, like pawning off rotten apples. If the apples are indeed rotten and Ethan knows this, then he knows that he does not receive ownership of or permission to use the $20, because the condition 'no fraud' is not satisfied. He is knowingly in possession of Karen's $20 without her consent, and is, therefore, a thief.

source: https://mises.org/wire/problem-fraud-fraud-threat-and-contra...

There is no equivalent of harm done to property or person with plagiarism in an academic setting.

> Finally, it is curious that the first thing that occurs to people on first hearing the anti-IP case is plagiarism: “You mean it would be okay for someone to take an author’s work, put his own name on it, and sell it?”

> Two issues are conflated here. One can plagiarize without violating a copyright, and one can violate a copyright without plagiarizing. Under copyright law you may use brief verbatim excerpts of another’s written work without permission as long as you use quotation marks and attribute the text to the author. It’s called “fair use.” (Question for copyright fans: Isn’t even fair use a violation of an author’s rights?) If you were to use an excerpt that otherwise would qualify under the fair-use principle but without attribution, you would be guilty of plagiarism but not copyright violation. The same would be true if you quote Shakespeare without attribution. (Shakespeare wrote without benefit of copyright.)

> On the other hand, if you publish Atlas Shrugged with Ayn Rand’s name on it, you would be guilty of copyright violation but not plagiarism.

> For the sake of clear thinking, let’s keep these issues separate.

> Well, is plagiarism okay? No, it’s not! Obviously it is dishonest and dishonorable to represent someone else’s work as one’s own. But note, according to LegalZoom, “plagiarism is not a criminal or civil offense.” Nor should it be. It’s a breach of good conduct, and there is a plentitude of nonviolent, non-State ways to deal with it, especially in the Internet age.

Source: https://mises.org/wire/slave-labor-and-intellectual-property...

Look, I get it's a bad in a practical sense if someone cheats or plagiarizes, especially to the cheater. It could even be a breach of contract between the student and the school. But it's not a crime against another person. It's a "victimless crime" essentially.

If someone falsifies licensing or safety requirements, like with an airplane or a building, that's a legal matter. Call that "professional fraud" -- it's illegal. But there is no law against cheating in school.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#260

I'm really disappointed by the downvotes that sithadmin, misterbowfinger, and I have been receiving in this thread. Let me restate the argument, not in favor of cheating but why it's not the moral issue that everyone makes it out to be: 1. Cheating is only an issue in the artificial world of academia, where it goes against how the system is supposed to work. 2. We only think it is a moral issue because it's been dril…

> We only think it is a moral issue because it's been drilled into us since we were kids, and that we think it is not fair to those who don't cheat and devalues the value of their degree. Is it your belief that if we fail to punish academic cheating, people will learn to not cheat in other aspects of life?

It is my belief that we should have checks and balances against that in other aspects of life where they matter. Where people's money or lives are on the line. Academia is not one of those situations.
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