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Time to rebuild the web?

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Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#251

Post by bubbleRefuge »

api wrote: post #224
kingnight wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a mobile phone sync dats? The main drawback I see currently with beaker is their is no mobile version (for iPhone)

Mobile as a whole is an unsolved problem for decentralized systems. The mobile revolution is and has been by far the most powerful driver of centralization in the last 10-15 years. Mobile devices are slower, have less memory, and must consume less power than desktop, laptop, or server devices. To achieve good battery life they really need to be in an almost-off state most of the time. Add to this the fact that cellul…

For the battery problem, what about the proliferation of wireless charging ?

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#252

Post by cgoughnour »

WhiteNoiz3 wrote: post #230
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

I've always felt that we need some kind of ubiquitous and low friction micro transactions for small time websites to succeed and to move away from the ad driven model. A niche blog could be successful with a small audience if each of them donates a penny or two to read new stories. That way people are directly supporting content that they find useful, rather than having to create controversy to drive ads and clicks.

Coase's transaction cost theory of the firm seems to imply that low cost, ubiquitous transactions would lead to a reduction in the size of corporations generally, which might do something to redress the imbalance of power between individuals and corporations as well.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#253

Post by herbst »

typingduck wrote: post #222
vlehto wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is about to enforce GDPR. Net neutrality seems to be American problem, while rest of the world is moving to the opposite direction. Which economy has better prospects in the long run? Currently internet is very U.S. centric because most of the big players are located there. That could change if European legislation is more supportive for small agile companies to evolve.

As a EU citizen after watching all of Zuckerberg talking to Congress I was really amazed. I do not think any country in Europe would have such open discussions. Most articles I've seen have unfortunately picked soundbites to make a point, or claimed the Representatives were not tech-savvy. But for me it was really great democracy in action. if European legislation is more supportive for small agile companies to evolv…

Honestly I think Europes structure is mostly perfect for small agile companies. It is not very welcoming to big business however.

It's easy to found a company and pay a fair flat rate percentage tax rate as eu (or schengen for this topic) citizen. It's just not economical to stay here once you get big tho.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#254

Post by gkya »

JBReefer wrote: post #206
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

Totally agree. It's ads and the attention economy. They thrive on controversy - it's the psychological version of the banner ads in the 90s, but 10,000x more effective.

Is there a study on the (in)effectiveness of online ad campaigns? Is it or is it not a bubble that drives all this ad publisher to the ad platforms instead of buying ads more directly? I don't know the prices but I can bet buying an ad directly from a vlogger is cheaper and more effective than any ad platform out there. Is it really the dumbness of ad publishers that keep this system alive or is it me that I'm really ignorant when it comes to the economy of internet?

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#255

Post by hodgesrm »

WhiteNoiz3 wrote: post #230
randomsearch wrote: post #105

I don't believe the problem lies in any technology. We don't need blockchain, it's not JavaScript minification, it isn't the centralisation of services that are the problem. It's the business model. No amount of tech is going to change that. If you want to change the situation, start social media businesses with a different business model.

I've always felt that we need some kind of ubiquitous and low friction micro transactions for small time websites to succeed and to move away from the ad driven model. A niche blog could be successful with a small audience if each of them donates a penny or two to read new stories. That way people are directly supporting content that they find useful, rather than having to create controversy to drive ads and clicks.

The problem with metered schemes is that they inhibit users who feel they are burning money every time they touch a page. It's kind of like having to pay by the megabyte every time you use your phone on the Internet.

What about a general subscription model that gets you access to a wide range of websites? The point is to have a fixed price for consumers so they can read as much as you want. Distributing the money to sites you visit is a backend problem.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#256

Post by peterwwillis »

icebraining wrote: post #240
peterwwillis wrote: post #158

I just came back from China. I could not message my loved ones, check my mail, update my social media, or listen to internet radio. This was not Facebook's fault, it was not even China's fault (though they were the ones blocking me). It was the fault of the way we use existing technology. So Facebook is banned. Fine. That shouldn't stop me from being able to at least send data somewhere that will end up at Facebook.…

If the interesting things ran over email, China would start blocking those too. Who cares where the intermediary server is, if the email headers contain the final destination? Plus, they would probably block any direct access to intermediary servers outside the country.

They can block all intermediary servers outside the country, that's fine. E-mail is an entire system, the way Facebook is a system. They would either need to block individual addresses, or the entire system. The former is the only feasible option with e-mail, otherwise basically you couldn't do business with the outside world, and China likes doing business.

With the web, or chat apps, they block the whole target system and provide an alternative, which is somewhat reasonable. You could make this more difficult by designing the technology to make it more difficult to design alternate systems, and easier for it to work in a way that is acceptable to China and still supports existing users.

This isn't a difficult or bad thing. We've had this forever on the web, where you could see a page was not using a secured connection (saying "this page is secure" just because the connection is secure is a big overstatement). It's mostly a recent development that privacy zealots have been shoving this "secure or nothing" idea down everyone's throats.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#257

Post by pfraze »

aquadrop wrote: post #97
Hedja wrote: post #23

It feels like this is already a work in progress using Beaker Browser and Dat. - Beaker lets you browse entire websites (dat archives) and fork them. - It lets you create and serve your own sites directly from the browser and seed it from a server (like a torrent). - It lets other sites create templated sites under your name for user generated content. - Visitors by default temporarily seed your website which may red…

But that only works for static data?

Dats aren't static. They're public key addressed, so you can make changes. The next protocol iteration will have support for multiple writers using CRDTs (sometime this summer).

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#258

Post by psyc »

bitL wrote: post #214
psyc wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't care, because it's important enough to repeat in any discussion about rebuilding the Web. Involve some real systems people. Design a real app platform, with multi-language support, especially compiled languages. Have a cohesive end to end development story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

If current web stacks aren't bloated and over-engineered, then I don't know what would qualify.

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#259

Post by fragmede »

Who's played with Glitch.com already? The author of the linked article credits Anil Dash's plan to reintroduce the building blocks of the web as having a greater chance of success, and one of those building blocks is glitch.com.

Playing with Glitch.com, it's possible to see a way forwards that isn't just iterating a better UI on top of an RSS reader. It's still lines of code as opposed to trying to push some GUI-based programming language, but does very well to promote the idea of building blocks for the web.

If most of us are basically plumbers but for data on the Internet, glitch.com is the consumer hardware store where they sell all the various fun pipe connectors that you'd use for building an epic ball machine as a kid. (Github.com would be is the store with a catalog that has table after table of parts in every possible variation.)

Re: Time to rebuild the web?

#260

Post by herbst »

martin_drapeau wrote: post #30

When I ask friends and family who use Facebook daily, privacy and security never come up as pain points. Media is blowing everything out of proportion. Replacing Facebook with RSS or Feedly is nonsense. My friends and family have no idea what those are. Facebook makes it easy for people to connect with old friends and family members through active human interactions: like this, follow her, read that. By doing so you…

Right now privacy is such a big deal with 'older' people around me. Nearly every friend of my parents will ask random questions in the last weeks and months.

I agree that RSS and Feedly are no replacement. But other replacements (closed media enabled chats) are happening right now and people happily switch because they see their privacy in danger.

Tl:dr: it's in the point of view.

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