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Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

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Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#251

Post by meritt »

dayaz36 wrote: post #204

To give some background on how his sentencing increased so dramatically, initially he was convicted but since no one lost any money his sentencing guidelines were 0-12 months(most likely no jail time since it was his first offence). As a general rule of thumb in federal fraud cases sentencing is primarily determined by the what's called the "loss amount" of the crime in question. But a couple weeks ago the judge deci…

> the judge decided to come up with a HYPOTHETICAL loss

The judge issued a 96-page opinion [1] that details his crimes and the sentencing guidelines. It was not an off-the-cuff decision as you're suggesting.

> This seems beyond absurd and as far as I know has no precedence.

Your lack of knowledge on a subject does not make it absurd.

[1] https://martinshkrelilacksjudgment.files.wordpress.com/2018/...

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#252

Post by robrenaud »

harryh wrote: post #218
wpietri wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mistakenly compare a failure to act ("save someone from malaria") with a clear purposeful action ("extorted sick poor people"). And there's no particular "higher purpose" of the law here that prevents us from making Shkreli's behavior illegal. Price gouging is illegal under other circumstances [1]; as far as I can tell his actions were legal just because nobody thought someone would be this awful. If you'd like t…

Malaria person: please wpietri, help me. wpietri: No Sick person: please shkreli, help me. shkreli: Sure, for $500 At least in the second scenario the person is being offered an option under which they get help. It sounds a lot better than the first scenario for the afflicted.

    Sick person: please moderately profitable pharma company, help me.
    moderately profitable pharma company: Sure, for $50

    Sick person: please insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli, help me.
    insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli: Sure, for $5000

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#253

Post by marnett »

Now the public can rest easy knowing that the only person in pharmaceuticals whose business model for increased profits was spending less on R&D and raising the prices of drugs. Growth all around! /s

The public (including many people, unfortunately, in this thread) will now be convinced that there is no more price gouging in pharmaceuticals, which is patently false. It is still legal, it is still one of the primary business models, and still no justice is served to the sick and uninsured.

Shkreli is going to jail because he almost (whether intentionally or not is to be determined) brought regulation to an entire industry that thrives off of raising prices on drugs needed to treat chronic conditions.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#254

Post by stale2002 »

ggg9990 wrote: post #46
foxhound6 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Offending the public, whether right or wrong, has consequences. Shkreli is getting a taste of mob justice, or just what he asked for. Isn't that exactly what the justice system is in place to prevent?

No, it’s what the justice system is in place to formalize.

Then that "justice" system should be overthrow, along with every judge who supports that line of thinking.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#255

Post by ansible »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #248
rayiner wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, just because they caused the financial collapse doesn't mean they broke the law.

CDO (Collateralized Debt Obligation) origination fraud is a crime. The GFC was not caused by law abiding activities. It was fraud, plain and simple. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion... As part of the RMBS Working Group, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of New Jersey conducted a FIRREA investigation into misrepresentations made by Merrill Lynch to investors in 72 RMBS throughout…

Indeed. There was fraud committed at all levels which lead up to the crash.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#256

Post by dragonwriter »

dayaz36 wrote: post #204

To give some background on how his sentencing increased so dramatically, initially he was convicted but since no one lost any money his sentencing guidelines were 0-12 months(most likely no jail time since it was his first offence). As a general rule of thumb in federal fraud cases sentencing is primarily determined by the what's called the "loss amount" of the crime in question. But a couple weeks ago the judge deci…

> To give some background on how his sentencing increased so dramatically

It didn't increase. His sentence was never anything else.

> initially he was convicted but since no one lost any money his sentencing guidelines were 0-12 months(most likely no jail time since it was his first offence).

False again. When the sentencing phase began, his lawyers argued there were no legal losses caused by his fraud, and prosecutors argued that losses were in the $9-20 million range. Both sides presented evidence and legal argument to support their position.

> As a general rule of thumb in federal fraud cases sentencing is primarily determined by the what's called the "loss amount" of the crime in question.

This much is correct.

> But a couple weeks ago the judge decided to come up with a HYPOTHETICAL loss and base the sentencing on that!

False; it was not a hypothetical loss amount. The court applied existing legal precedent that “loss in fraud cases includes the amount of property taken, even if all or part has been returned.” [0]

[0] http://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Shk...

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#257

Post by harryh »

robrenaud wrote: post #252
harryh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malaria person: please wpietri, help me. wpietri: No Sick person: please shkreli, help me. shkreli: Sure, for $500 At least in the second scenario the person is being offered an option under which they get help. It sounds a lot better than the first scenario for the afflicted.

Sick person: please moderately profitable pharma company, help me. moderately profitable pharma company: Sure, for $50 Sick person: please insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli, help me. insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli: Sure, for $5000

Exactly. Same thing. Both voluntary business transactions subject to the same rules as any other voluntarily exchange. No one is obligated to sell any particular good or service for any particular price.

I know a lot of people see this differently but I don't think they have an ethical leg to stand on. When it gets down to it they have no particular rule for fair pricing other than "that feels too high to me."

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#258

Post by roymurdock »

danso wrote: post #230
roymurdock wrote: post #79

Really recommend watching Shkreli's interview with The Breakfast Club where he's attacked for all the things he's become infamous for in the public sphere (drug price hikes, wu-tang album, etc.) The guy gets it, and played the game the way it was presented to him. He actually comes across as a very smart, thoughtful, and respectful guy that can roll with the punches and dish back when needed. Sure he's a bit of a tro…

I agree he's very smart. But you argue that, besides being a boy genius, he is a very thoughtful and respectful guy -- yet he's too dumb and ignorant to recognize the consequences of extreme trolling? Even when he was warned repeatedly against such trolling, and that it was clear to everyone that such trolling would be absolutely a detriment to his own welfare? If we agree that he is very smart, how does being though…

He understands the justice/social system and its absurdity and decides to have a bit of fun subverting the system and stirring up drama, even if it has detrimental effects on his ongoing case, because he enjoys giving the middle finger to authority and the established order/system.

He's respectful to the interviewers, but he seems to absolutely detest authority (especially authority which seems arbitrary or archaic).

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#259

Post by danso »

stale2002 wrote: post #246
walshemj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes going "fuck you judge" whilst on trial does tend to have that effect. Its also why contempt of court and malfeasance in public office has such harsh panties

Are judges Kings now and if we hurt their ity bity feelings, they will send men with guns to arrest us for it? This is exactly the same thing as when Kings used to kill people because they insulted their honor or something.

No, judges are not kings. The concept of a judicial branch came as a response to monarchies in which kings and ministers were given unchecked executive and judicial powers. That doesn't mean the judicial branch can operate without having laws and standards to prevent proceedings from falling into chaos. Shkreli and lawyer were made well aware of these laws.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#260

Post by techman9 »

marnett wrote: post #253

Now the public can rest easy knowing that the only person in pharmaceuticals whose business model for increased profits was spending less on R&D and raising the prices of drugs. Growth all around! /s The public (including many people, unfortunately, in this thread) will now be convinced that there is no more price gouging in pharmaceuticals, which is patently false. It is still legal, it is still one of the primary b…

No. Shkreli is going to jail because he committed fraud.
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