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Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

nytimes.com

251–260 of 345 posts

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#251
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's a bit of a trope like "worked at NASA" (atm over 17.000 people work at NASA). "Worked at" means nothing; show us some achievements.

I cleaned those NASA-toilets super clean, good sir, so I find no reason why you shouldn't trust me on my knowledge about aerodynamics!

The new Star Wars movies have cemented that this is acceptable.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#252
post #223
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally think it will be that cyclic. There is so much more invested this time around, so many more people standing to lose so much more money, such a brighter light on the cryptocurrency world now. A devastating loss (e.g. Bitfinex shuts down and freezes all transfers, Tether worthless, that type of thing) to the BTC economy would be critical to the entire future of cryptocurrency as we know it, IMO. I do…

I don't know. Most finance people now have access to bitcoin exposure through trusted institutions via futures. Many of these people felt a lot of FOMO at missing the boat on Bitcoin's last big jump. I think if it drops to $5k, there will be some big players taking a long position in hopes of another order of magnitude movement. Certainly could get much uglier, but I think Tethers vanishing would not be fatal. Also,…

Most, if not all, financial institutions aren't exposed to cryptocurrencies directly either through futures or the underlying currencies. Institutions are defined as endowments, sovereign wealth funds, pensions and asset management firms such as Goldman Sachs. Capital inflow into the cryptocurrency space in aggregate is still less than $10B. If the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund bought Bitcoin, their minimum purchase would probably be $50MM which represents .5% capital inflow and a nice uptick in "market cap" of the industry.

Bitcoin is by no means established because these institutions aren't investing. If and when the day comes that this happens then Bitcoin will be established and increase one or two magnitudes. Many of the above institutions legally can't invest because they are restricted by their mandates. Bitcoin is a terrible use case for criminals because it's transparent. Monero would be better because it's anonymous.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say that humanity has repeatedly and organically come to a solution broadly known as government and regulation.

I disagree vehemently to this proposition. I have never agreed or voted to get those regulations in place. They are not voluntary. But anyone falling for tether today is making an individual decision.

> I disagree vehemently to this proposition.

I haven't made a proposition. I just pointed out that historically, when societies have made decisions about this sort of thing, they've generally decided that such individuals require protection via regulations.

In general, most of the laws we are expected to follow are not ones we personally agreed to or voted on. I'm not sure that makes them less "organic." If you're arguing that you should not be expected to follow laws that you didn't personally agree to, I think that's a bigger conversation.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#254
post #99
post #84

The somewhat ironic part is that one of the core concepts of Bitcoin is that you can't counterfeit it. You can mathematically prove how many coins you own, if somebody sends you 3 BTC then once it's been validated on the blockchain you know that the money is now yours, they can't have lied, it can't bounce like a cheque Except this Bitfinex thing shows that while an amount of bitcoin can't be manipulated or counterfe…

The amazing transparency of the crypto tech has been overshadowed by a total lack of transparency in every other way.

I think the underlying assumption that the "amazing transparency" enabled by crypto currencies will necessarily lead to a fairer more humane world is dangerously naive.

Does it not occur to people how an immutable, publicly inspectable ledger that records all your transactions might be abused by criminals and/or corrupt authoritarian governments?

Maybe HN is the wrong place to quote 90s rap songs, but these guys knew a thing or two about criminality and human nature.

"Rule Number Uno, never let no one know

How much dough you hold, cause you know

The cheddar breed jealousy, 'specially

If that man f---ed up, get yo' a-- stuck up" -Biggie Smalls (10 Crack Commandments)

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say that humanity has repeatedly and organically come to a solution broadly known as government and regulation.

I disagree vehemently to this proposition. I have never agreed or voted to get those regulations in place. They are not voluntary. But anyone falling for tether today is making an individual decision.

>> You could say that humanity has repeatedly and organically come to a solution broadly known as government and regulation.

> I disagree vehemently to this proposition. I have never agreed or voted to get those regulations in place. They are not voluntary. But anyone falling for tether today is making an individual decision.

Nevertheless, you benefit from them. It's not like you have to sign up to the regulation that makes your murder illegal. Don't you think it would be foolish to expect every generation to have to rediscover, through trial and error, the benefits of society and government?

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your direct question, Tether is sold as a fully-backed instrument, so there's major (potentially billions of dollars of) fraud if it's not fully backed. That's an issue because consumers aren't getting what they paid for, i.e. the underlying risk profile is different from what they thought the were buying. The big difference with Tether is that in traditional banking, fractional reserves are legal, and regu…

So if Tether was FDIC backed, then you’d technically be OK with this situation?

Actually yes, because FDIC backing would mean they've gone through all of the necessary steps to become a real bank. I would have some confidence that they actually have the USD to back up their holdings as they claim. If still turn out to be a scam then at least I'd have something to fall back on, and some people over at the FDIC would have some questions to answer.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#257
post #2

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

As Carl Sagan put it, "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#258
post #243
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Of course maybe they're not actually crooks and they do have the money." Well then, an audit by competent third parties, inspecting where they got their funds, how much they actually have on hand, and whether it covers all potential liabilities (including calls on the supposedly dollar-backed tethers) would go a long way to clearing up the matter. Bitfinex announced an audit with great fanfare early last year. They…

To me this is very strong evidence that Tether is a scam. So why is anyone willing to pay $1 for a Tether?

Is anyone actually paying dollars for Tether, or are they just using them to buy/sell other cryptocurrencies?

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#259

I'm wondering how many people are shorting USDT on Kraken? The potential downside is having to pay interest. The upside is 100% win. With enough short position, Tether will run out of funds and the price will have to crash. Disclosure: I'm short USDT.

Just tried to short sell USDT on Kraken. Response: Canceled - Insufficient Margin. This means "that the exchange's margin pool for that currency is currently used up" [1]. So this might give you an idea to start with... [1] https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/217696017-Insuf...

Or basically: No remaining suckers available for this transaction.

Re: Worries Grow That the Price of Bitcoin Is Being Propped Up

#260
post #257
post #2

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

As Carl Sagan put it, "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Columbus really belongs with Bozo and not Fulton and Wright. His plan was ridiculed because it was ridiculous for reasons which were had been clear since before the rise, much less fall, of Rome, could not reasonably have worked, and did not work.

He happened to stumble into something unrelated in the course of his crazy plan (which is the only reason anyone on the expedition survived), which lots of people who weren't him recognized as something new and valuable independently of the goal Columbus had both insanely set out and, even more insanely, insisted after the fact and to his death that he had succeeded in.

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