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The State of Atom's Performance

blog.atom.io

251–260 of 293 posts

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#251
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that easy to make it work with all 3 OS.

Not that hard nowadays, just use something like SDL to do the heavy lifting.

If it would be so easy as you paint it there would be lot more native applications. Unfortunately you can count them using your fingers.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for being skeptical. Where is this git-time-machine equivalent?

What's the point of the graphics in git-time-machine? The bubble plot seems less useful to me than a readable log. If it were useful there would probably be an equivalent findable from https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Magit

The question isn't "do I like these extensions?" It's "does Emacs let you build these extensions?" The Atom developers thought that providing this flexibility was important, which is at least in part why they used the technology they did.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#253
post #241
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

I, and many others, don't care about "native". I've used Java applications and I will keep using them when they're useful. And regarding Java application speed, IntelliJ is pretty much comparable with the "native" Visual Studio. About the looks, I'm using right now Vim (GTK), Skype (I don't even know what toolkit it's using, but I'm pretty sure it's not native), Eclipse (SWT - sort of native), Pidgin (GTK), Firefox (…

True. jEdit is one of the best editors i have used. Not my default editor but i use it from time to time and install it everywhere.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#255
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the Visual Studio installer still sucks, there's no portable version that I know of, and extending it is a major undertaking. Plus, it's Windows only (the version for Mac is mostly a different app). It is a great app, I agree, but it also comes with its own legacy.

I'm using the Mac version. Started with it today. It felt like getting all the benefits of RubyMine without the learning curve of needing to learn its non-Sublime macros, thanks to Visual Studio's option to automatically map key commands to mimic Vim, Sublime or Atom. Not sure how difficult extending it is, but on day one in their app store I found all the important ruby bindings I needed to replicate what I value mo…

You mean Visual Studio Code? I feel we're talking about different things here...

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#256
post #241
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

I, and many others, don't care about "native". I've used Java applications and I will keep using them when they're useful. And regarding Java application speed, IntelliJ is pretty much comparable with the "native" Visual Studio. About the looks, I'm using right now Vim (GTK), Skype (I don't even know what toolkit it's using, but I'm pretty sure it's not native), Eclipse (SWT - sort of native), Pidgin (GTK), Firefox (…

Skype Win32 GUI is written in Delphi, remember Skype is old, used to be P2P, and got bought.

Firefox 57 still uses XUL for the GUI, only XUL-addons got deactivated. The long term vision is to remove XUL and xpcom, from what I heard. They will have to rewrite the GUI completely in HTML5 (not just small parts like the settings page) like Vivaldi and Brave browser.

DotNet UI isn't native either (WinForms, WCF, render their own custom controls).

Office applications incl Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook aren't using the native UI either, they use a custom UI framework ever since, the first weird UI features were introduced with version 1995 with the italic window title, and 1997 had custom drawn elements all over the place.

Visual Basic 4-6 had custom UI elements too.

Windows XP software panel, part of the new control panel and help system use a custom UI too. They were fined by EU from not releasing the API documentation, giving them a leading edge. WinVista and onwards uses this custom drawn UI elements also in the copy-dialog.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#257
post #241
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

I, and many others, don't care about "native". I've used Java applications and I will keep using them when they're useful. And regarding Java application speed, IntelliJ is pretty much comparable with the "native" Visual Studio. About the looks, I'm using right now Vim (GTK), Skype (I don't even know what toolkit it's using, but I'm pretty sure it's not native), Eclipse (SWT - sort of native), Pidgin (GTK), Firefox (…

Look, I was being a bit snarky. I think all apps that are not native, or don't follow system convention, create an impedance in that they don't always follow system conventions, or something about them doesn't work exactly as it would in a native app. This can cause confusion in users. The level of impedance depends on the user skill, experience and expectations. I know traditionally, Mac users have cared a lot about consistency and following the HIG, whereas Linux users are more likely to pick the application they prefer and not care whether it is GTK or QT.

If you are someone who jumps between Windows, Linux and macOS using the same app then consistency in how the app works is a big gain for you, and then the impedance comes from the system you are using.

I didn't mean to imply that Java apps are bad, far from it. Many java apps are good, they just stick out like the proverbial, and performance historically was not as good as native apps. There was a time when the go to torrent application was java based and Netbeans and Eclipse were the IDEs of choice. But they made trade-offs, and two of the key ones are performance and consistent UX with the operating system. For many applications / users, this is a fine trade off to make. But Atom made a similar trade off and then the developers have spent all this time and effort trying to improve performance, and that is what I was trying to be snarky at, that its obvious why performance will always lag.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#258
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

If they're so bad, why are so they popular? https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#technology-mo...

Being popular isn't a synonym for quality.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#259
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowest common denominator. We put it on every kids desktop in the 1990's. We put it on every kids phone in the 2000's. We are shocked when they reinvent the wheel with in the 2010's. Now in 2020 they are trying to tell me all the kinks are worked out with frameworks and to get your javascript to work in a browsers you first need to compile/transpile it. Skip the whole multi-platform idea and focus on electron with al…

And before that every computer had C and Basic. There seems to be a common aspect here, the default programming languages suck :)

My first one came with ZX Basic and Z80.

The next one came with debug and GW Basic.

Followed by another one with debug, GW Basic and QBasic.

I always had to buy my Assemblers, Pascal and C++ compilers.

Which computers came with C, besides UNIX workstations?

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#260
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology. Not being exceedingly serious here but... you pretty much summed up why Python is so successful in AI/ML and science ;)

How does that follow? The boring technology in AI/ML is C++. Which is why TensorFlow etc. have a boring & hard C++ core, and a lovely & easy Python layer that transmits the computational graph to the core. Electron is similar: a boring & hard Chromium C++ core, and a lovely & easy JS layer. What pains me is that there is no reason to include libraries we don't use . Each Electron embeds a large amount of memory-consu…

C++98 mostly coded in C style, is boring & hard.

C++17 written using best practices in safety learned in the last decades, is exciting and simple.

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