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Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

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Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#251
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which community?

Ethereum. Admittedly there's a dark side of scammy ICOs, but there's also lots of open source coding and idealists trying to change the world. I don't think Ethereum is the only cryptocurrency community like this, it's just the one I'm involved in.

> idealists

> hard fork because people didn't want to honor smart contract

Does not compute.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#252
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which community?

Ethereum. Admittedly there's a dark side of scammy ICOs, but there's also lots of open source coding and idealists trying to change the world. I don't think Ethereum is the only cryptocurrency community like this, it's just the one I'm involved in.

Ethereum community is so cool, I envy you can join it with full time:)

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, large investment banking houses will step in and create naked shorting opportunities to inflate sell pressure creating 'death spirals' to drive prices down and scoop them up and extreme discounts. This happens in the traditional public markets everyday.

> Or, large investment banking houses will step in and create naked shorting opportunities to inflate sell pressure creating 'death spirals' to drive prices down and scoop them up and extreme discounts. This happens in the traditional public markets everyday. Is there a term for this?

Yes, this can happen in a few different ways and is the reason why Ycombinator created SAFEs. When you have a public company you will get offers for what are called "credit lines", "debt financing" or "convertible notes". They are traditionally used to create death spirals https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/deathspiralbond.... as the size of your float increases by you, executive director (CEO/CFO), as a public company "issuing" more stock to cover the loan. The more you issue, the less you're worth until somebody comes along scoops you up and re-engineers the cap table which is a restructuring. However, manipulation can occur within institutions as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=KasianFranks&next=14...

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biggest owner can steal smaller owners money, maybe, depending on the POS design. But that would make no sense. I mean the biggest owners have the biggest stake in the integrity of the network, no? supply and demand can clear at X and at 0.5X, so that doesn't answer the question for me.

Then you fail to understand the incentive structure. The only game-theory outcome to a PoS system is a monopoly. That's the reason why there aren't any successful ones. Because they require trust.

Agree, I fail to understand what you mean. If I'm a large owner of a POS coin, why would I want to steal smaller owners' coins ? Don't I want them to trust the system and keep buying more coins ?

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#255

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I had bought about $50 worth of BTC a year ago and it's now worth $800. Did the bitcoin economy grow that much in the last year? I've heard of increasing adoption by banks and governments but I don't know to what extent they're investing. I don't follow it closely and at this valuation, I have no idea whether it's a good investment or not. Should I sell it now before the inevitable crash? Should I buy more? I don't t…

Ask yourself first, why did the value climb 16x? If you cant answer that then I caution purchasing more. I would also spend some time understanding what "investing" is vs what speculating\gambling is. This is gambling.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin

This is the reason why the price is exploding.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are clearly very well informed (no sarcasm intended), do you mind helping me with something Ive been struggling with? In your opinion, what is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

> In your opinion, what is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin? I use the 1:10000 rule ( https://xkcd.com/1053/ ) for this argument. It is my opinion that the intrinsic value of bitcoin is far far greater than anyone really comprehends. People generally are too focused on people just buying and selling the asset, but not about the cryptographic proof, and incentive structure that perpetuates the network functioning. So wh…

so your argument is that its value is just that it's cryptographically secure?

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#257
post #199

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Price wouldn’t drop unless you actually sold.

The trick here is that the whale does sell but profits in Fiat. Then using those profits you can buy the now cheaper Bitcoin. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Depending on what market makers are up to, this will work or won’t. Trend would be towards eventually not working if it does at all. Difficult to say how liquidity differences will affect ability of your strat to work.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as an extreme discount for Bitcoin. I have yet to see anybody try to do a proper valuation for a Bitcoin to set a price target. If there were, institutional investors would buy in and its price in USD would stabilize nearly instantly. No Bitcoin pumpers can give a proper value analysis because its actual value is something approaching 0. It has no use for which it is better than alternatives, e…

I get it. You don't understand the application of decentralization and consensus in bitcoin, and how its application separates it from all other alts. Bitcoin is the only real crypto-currency, because it is the only one to have achieved actual decentralization, and therefore is a working implementation of the previously thought unsolvable solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem. Doesn't mean other people don't und…

> Bitcoin is the only real crypto-currency, because it is the only one to have achieved actual decentralization

This is ridiculous because Bitcoin is arguably much more vulnerable to centralized manipulation than fiat money. You only need to compromise 2-3 of the major mining pools and suddenly a 51% attack isn't so unfathomable, and that's just one potential attack vector. The pools obscure the real source of the mining power -- wouldn't it be funny if it was a nation-state who had a backdoor, or even one who was just interested in promoting bitcoin because it makes it so much easier for them to track their citizen's activities and exchanges? What happens if a bitcoin core dev gets compromised? What about MtGox^WCoinbase? What if you wanted to destroy bitcoin, and blew up a hotel where the central bankers^W^Wmajor pool operators were all meeting at the same time, as they've been known to do? etc. Could go on for a long time.

If I wanted to disrupt the Federal Reserve the same way, where do I start? Can I get the interest rate changed by phishing Janet Yellin's Gmail password?

Bitcoin as an experiment in a democratized, decentralized mechanism of exchange that normal people could use as an alternative to conventional payment methods has completely failed. This is, in large part, due to the short-sighted design of the difficulty mechanism, which makes it impossible to mine on commodity hardware. As soon as someone releases affordable hardware that is useful for mining, it defeats itself on the next difficulty bump.

Bitcoin is something weird right now, but it's assuredly not what it was meant to be, because a central cartel of power brokers have it wrapped around their finger and the average citizen can't do anything about it, exactly the circumstance that most early adopters were hoping bitcoin could help solve.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#259
post #197

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> Its a bit surprising that I'm being downvoted on a tech forum for asserting that information doesn't have weight. You are being downvoted for espousing an erroneous definition of the word "physical".

I think the clarifications on what is physical were pretty clear. The information in a ledger isn't physical. The information stored in data isn't physical. It's information. Information isn't physical no matter what medium you choose to store it in.

I have to agree with you. If I take an empty hard drive and fill it with information, clearly it's information content has increased but its physical weight would be the same. You could argue that it contained 0s or 0xffs to begin with but since they are all the same the quantity of information is less. So information itself does not have a weight but it exists in the state of physical objects which do have weight.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#260
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been a negative detractor of bitcoin. But then I realized the problem was it was marketed wrong. As a currency, it's a nightmare of a creation. But as a store of value, it's actually pretty good. As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles (which admittedly is when the majority of people get in), it's been pretty good at more or less maintaining its value. As a non-physical thing, it's a…

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

Why are you easily able to see gold as having intrinsic value but not Bitcoin? Both are valuable because a lot of people say so. There is no other value but utility and most currencies, including the dollar, do not have any utility other than their ability to function as currency.
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