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USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

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Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#251

Post by Terr_ »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #76
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #42

Instead of a lottery, we should have an H1-B auction. There are a limited number of H1-B slots, and the companies that offer the highest salaries get them. In addition, whistle-blower protection with automatic Green cards for anyone who reports employer abuse, with prison sentences for the entire company C-suite if a company abuses this process.

We’ve discussed the auction before here. My sentiment is that it would cause all of the H1Bs to be concentrated in the Bay Area at a handful of companies.

I agree, that's one side effects to watch out for.

However, it can be curbed with some rough (80/20) cost-of-living adjustments to the applications before they're all put together for ranking.

Even without that adjustment, I think the "bidding" system would probably represent a significant improvement over what we have now.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#252

Post by andonisus »

damnyou wrote: post #249
andonisus wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that at all equivalent to what I said?

Changing your in-group from being based on race to being based on citizenship doesn't change the basic immorality of your position.

There is no immorality around my position. We exist as a country to promote the welfare of our own people. I should expect any country to place its own citizens' interests above those of foreign nations.

Moreover, countries are generally defined by their geographic locations. The actions of the people within them directly affect those around them. Local economies are affected by influxes of labor and depression of wages.

A person's race is simply an attribute they possess; attempting to compare this to a nationality makes little sense in this case. Someone's race does not intrinsically affect the economy around them, whereas the wage they are paid will.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#253

Post by damnyou »

andonisus wrote: post #252
damnyou wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing your in-group from being based on race to being based on citizenship doesn't change the basic immorality of your position.

There is no immorality around my position. We exist as a country to promote the welfare of our own people. I should expect any country to place its own citizens' interests above those of foreign nations. Moreover, countries are generally defined by their geographic locations. The actions of the people within them directly affect those around them. Local economies are affected by influxes of labor and depression of wa…

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for [our] children."

There, fixed that for you.

> A person's race is simply an attribute they possess; attempting to compare this to a nationality makes little sense in this case.

Sounds great! Allow anyone who wants to be American to be American.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#254

Post by Zigurd »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #76
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #42

Instead of a lottery, we should have an H1-B auction. There are a limited number of H1-B slots, and the companies that offer the highest salaries get them. In addition, whistle-blower protection with automatic Green cards for anyone who reports employer abuse, with prison sentences for the entire company C-suite if a company abuses this process.

We’ve discussed the auction before here. My sentiment is that it would cause all of the H1Bs to be concentrated in the Bay Area at a handful of companies.

In which case H1-B would be used only for high-end R&D talent not obtainable in the US and would have little or no wage-depressing effect. What a terrible problem.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#255

Post by mark-r »

einfach wrote: post #87
damnyou wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stated purpose of the H1-B program is to allow companies to fill vacancies with international applicants if they are unable to find US employees qualified for the roles. This canard keeps getting repeated in HN threads. This is WRONG. 100% absolutely completely WRONG. The only stated purpose of the H-1B program is to allow foreigners with degrees (or equivalent experience) to perform skilled work in the US. Her…

> The employer, before petitioning for H-1B status for any alien worker pursuant to an H-1B LCA, took good faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the job for which the alien worker is sought, at wages at least equal to those offered to the H-1B worker. Also, the employer will offer the job to any U.S. worker who applies and is equally or better qualified than the H-1B worker. This attestation does not apply if the H…

I like the idea, nearly a throw-away line in the article, that the H-1B visas should be granted to the highest paying jobs rather than by lottery. That would certainly cut down on the abuses.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#256

Post by andonisus »

damnyou wrote: post #253
andonisus wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no immorality around my position. We exist as a country to promote the welfare of our own people. I should expect any country to place its own citizens' interests above those of foreign nations. Moreover, countries are generally defined by their geographic locations. The actions of the people within them directly affect those around them. Local economies are affected by influxes of labor and depression of wa…

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for [our] children." There, fixed that for you. > A person's race is simply an attribute they possess; attempting to compare this to a nationality makes little sense in this case. Sounds great! Allow anyone who wants to be American to be American.

What are you on about? Are you able to have a discussion about this, or are you simply looking to discount any counter-arguments with feeble attempts at dog whistling?

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#257

Post by mywittyname »

ng12 wrote: post #39
komali2 wrote: post #13

Conservatives may generally view this as "good" regardless of the impact because (according to arguments I've heard) "the less globalization, the better." In my mind, however, it boils down to two pretty simple points: Given that (1) the US is lagging far behind every developed nation in education, and higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive compared to other developed nations, (2) the only way for the…

> I just don't understand why we wouldn't want to make it as easy as possible to steal talent Because that's not what the H1-B is. The majority of H1-B holders are the IT body shops: Cognizant, Infosys, and Tata are the top 3 by a wide margin [1]. I agree with you in principle but I think the H1-B system is not a good implementation of those ideals. I have a hard time believing it does much more than depress the wage…

> I have a hard time believing it does much more than depress the wages of American white collar workers.

It makes it viable to keep white collar jobs in the midwest.

The company I work for announced they are no longer using these "IT body shops," as you put it. The local pool of workers is totally exhausted, so they can't find enough people to hire, and have decided to close up shop in the midwest and will be moving development to an ultra-high COL tech hub.

Officially, only developers are getting the ax. But I have to assume the rest of the staff are in line. The developers managers should probably be co-located, and if all the dev and managers are co-located, then so should the product managers and their teams. PMs and sales work pretty closely, so it's not hard to imagine those positions will move, etc, etc.

People love to throw out econ 101 supply/demand stuff here, and claim that obviously more tech workers = lower tech worker salaries. But that does not appear to be the case. Regions with more tech workers also pay higher salaries; there's a clear inverse relationship going on.

So, in my interpretation of the empirical evidence we have, suggests that more H1-Bs would raise developer/engineer wages, not suppress them.

P.S. It's clear that IT staff do face downward wage pressure from offshoring. But they also face the same from automation of their jobs (cloud services, SaaS, etc).

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#258

Post by protomyth »

damnyou wrote: post #203
protomyth wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States. https://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

This text is genuinely surprising to me. The only statutes that come close to meeting that goal are the ones that only apply to H-1B dependent employers and wilful violators.

The 1990 legislation creating the H-1B program was pretty specific that it was for getting skills into the country that could not be obtained locally. Considering all the notices that are supposed to be posted. It is abused heavily, but that was the intent.

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#259

Post by hirsin »

fggdsgsg wrote: post #180
rrhd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I don't think anyone argues that type of behavior isn't blatant abuse of the program. It's frustrating when people complain about H-1Bs at big companies like Google/MS/Amazon. Apparently we're underpaid, overworked, and stealing a job from an american. Despite the fact that these companies are almost constantly hiring and if the american wants to go try, they could.

If we weren't around, an American could demand a (significantly) higher wage. If the developer wages were higher an American programer would consider not becoming a manager (why code away for peanuts when you can boss others for much more?). That's in the short term. In the long term more Americans would do CS, and if the supply is tight enough, Apple and the others would open schools to train teenagers to code. Not…

Or BigCorp would open an office in your hometown and hire you there anyway, because it was now impossible to get enough people for their job.

More likely still, significantly more SaaS in easily configurable packages as companies that can't afford massive dev salaries for an IT department turn towards GoogMicroSAP to fulfill their needs

Re: USCIS is challenging an unusually large number of H-1B applications

#260

Post by damnyou »

andonisus wrote: post #256
damnyou wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for [our] children." There, fixed that for you. > A person's race is simply an attribute they possess; attempting to compare this to a nationality makes little sense in this case. Sounds great! Allow anyone who wants to be American to be American.

What are you on about? Are you able to have a discussion about this, or are you simply looking to discount any counter-arguments with feeble attempts at dog whistling?

Fine, here's my position: Immigration restrictions are a version of "separate but equal" segregation that is somehow acceptable to talk about. Anyone who wants to do a job, can do it, and is willing to move to where the job is should be able to do it, regardless of where they were born or what papers they have.

That they can't because a bunch of people have collectively decided to pull the ladder up behind them is unjust, unfair and immoral.

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