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Introducing Atom-IDE

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Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#251

Post by humanrebar »

kllrnohj wrote: post #180
noir_lord wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellij Ultimate costs me £14 a month, with the plugins (which makes it equivalent to Phpstorm, PyCharm, Rubymine and Webstorm) thats less than I spend on coffee in two weeks, it's insane value however you look at it. That said I still spend a chunk of time (maybe 30%) in vscode because for somethings I prefer it (it's git support with git lens is incredible) and for TypeScript it's comparable to Intellij with the a…

IntelliJ ultimate doesn't include C++ support, though, which is an additional $100 to get the "all products" package. $250 for a fairly basic C++ IDE that insists you use Cmake is not exactly an "insane value" to me, but ymmv.

C++ tooling is fairly abysmal. Partly because the language is so darn complex and full of warts. You basically need to implement most of a compiler to get meaningful IDE features.

Point being, a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#252

Post by conistonwater »

humanrebar wrote: post #251
kllrnohj wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliJ ultimate doesn't include C++ support, though, which is an additional $100 to get the "all products" package. $250 for a fairly basic C++ IDE that insists you use Cmake is not exactly an "insane value" to me, but ymmv.

C++ tooling is fairly abysmal. Partly because the language is so darn complex and full of warts. You basically need to implement most of a compiler to get meaningful IDE features. Point being, a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

C++ has libclang, which is "most of a compiler" and pretty good, so if you can plug libclang into your editor, which most editors like emacs can do, then it's pretty close to an IDE.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#253

Post by _tulpa »

betenoire wrote: post #239
whipoodle wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it closed a buffer because the backing file disappeared when I checked out a different branch. So I guess the lesson is use your file system to retain data and never your editor, which sounds obvious and you could certainly argue the loss was my fault. But I do that all the time with Sublime and never had this problem once. In fact I could quit Sublime altogether and the data would still be there when Subl…

I think every editor can probably configured to do this. I've set up my VIM to do this specifically (auto reload the buffer when the file is modified). I don't think that one's on VSCode.

They're not configured to do that by default, most of them ask prompt you if a file changes.

This one is on VSCode for having unsafe default behaviour which is also different to pretty much all the other editors.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#254

Post by ajmurmann »

tym0 wrote: post #113
noir_lord wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellij Ultimate costs me £14 a month, with the plugins (which makes it equivalent to Phpstorm, PyCharm, Rubymine and Webstorm) thats less than I spend on coffee in two weeks, it's insane value however you look at it. That said I still spend a chunk of time (maybe 30%) in vscode because for somethings I prefer it (it's git support with git lens is incredible) and for TypeScript it's comparable to Intellij with the a…

I keep seeing people writing about these "cheap" intellij subscriptions but on the website it's 400 pounds a year.

I don't know where these numbers come from. I just looked it up and my subscription to all IDEs JetBrains had to offer is $149/year. Given how much time I spend in RubyMine and IntelliJ this is a great price. Even if I wouldn't every once in a while use AppCode and DataGrip as well.

My only issue is lack of good Rust support.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#255

Post by ajmurmann »

kllrnohj wrote: post #215
greenshackle2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bother looking at the page you'll know when you buy a yearly subscription (or 12 consecutive monthly) with Jet Brains you automatically get a perpetual license for the current version. You only need to keep paying if you want to keep getting updates. If you're happy with the current version no one is forcing you to keep paying or keep updating. I can't speak to all IDEs, but at least with IntelliJ you're not j…

That's an unrealistically forgiving outlook on this. You're forced to upgrade when the language you're using upgrades. Or the ecosystem around the product evolves. The IDE doesn't live in a vacuum that will work in perpetuity. It's realistically much closer to renting than buying as once the updates stop it's not that much longer until the product is no longer usable in a modern environment. Simple example would be i…

You can hardly blame them for this situation though. They obviously have to do work to keep the IDE up to date.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#256

Post by kllrnohj »

humanrebar wrote: post #251
kllrnohj wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliJ ultimate doesn't include C++ support, though, which is an additional $100 to get the "all products" package. $250 for a fairly basic C++ IDE that insists you use Cmake is not exactly an "insane value" to me, but ymmv.

C++ tooling is fairly abysmal. Partly because the language is so darn complex and full of warts. You basically need to implement most of a compiler to get meaningful IDE features. Point being, a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

> a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

Except Eclipse does C++ better than CLion and it's $250 cheaper. The only real advantage JetBrains has here is consistency with their other products, but then they ruined that by putting it in its own standalone product. So you can't have, say, a Python/Java/Kotlin project with a C++ extension library in a single IDE window, at least not if you're invested in JetBrains technology.

Whereas that would work fine in vscode, Eclipse, Atom-IDE probably once it gets a C++ language server plugin which LLVM is working on, etc... Competition is good. IntelliJ is far from complete. That's really all I'm getting at. IntelliJ is not the pinacle, superior end-all-be-all IDE that some were saying here. It maybe is if you're in their primary supported set of languages. But it's not if you're at all on the fringes of what JetBrains supports (not that I'd necessarily call C++ a "fringe", either, but whatever)

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#257

Post by neilparikh »

halfteatree wrote: post #65
echelon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can we reasonably do to stop this? This goes against the very notion of open source.

No, it is not. If you sue people with software patent, I’m happy you lose that ability.

This covers all patents, including non-software patents, so you lose the ability to sue for non-software patents as well. Are you happy with that?

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#258

Post by neilparikh »

judofyr wrote: post #155
Will_Do wrote: post #37

This seems to also have the BSD + Patents beloved by Facebook[0]. The virus is spreading. [0]: https://github.com/facebook-atom/atom-ide-ui/blob/master/PAT...

What is the issue with a free patent grant (which is revoked under certain conditions)? Atom itself is licensed under MIT and doesn't give you a patent grant. EDIT: I understand that it would be best to get a free patent grant, but most open-source projects have no patent grant at all . Why are we not complaining that Microsoft might hold patents for VSCode that they suddenly will start suing companies over?

IANAL, but I've read that when there's no explicit patent grant written, an implicit patent grant can be inferred, since MIT says you have the ability to use it (which would require a patent grant if covered by patents). If that is the case, no (explicit) patent grant would be better than this grant.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#259

Post by ComputerGuru »

Touche wrote: post #173
dkersten wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same reason thousands of programmers use Vim or Emacs Vim/emacs give a better experience though: they work in a terminal/over ssh and they are FAST and lightweight (memory use). Atom has neither of these properties.

My vim process comes to a crawl if I forget to turn off syntax highlighting before opening large files. So I disagree.

That’s a broken highlight syntax file. The good ones don’t highlight text until it becomes visible in the buffer. You should bug it if it is reproducible in neovim. The team is highly responsive.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#260

Post by oneweekwonder »

fooker wrote: post #236
josteink wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron apps are terrible with X forwarding. Even locally, on your own LAN. It's all rendered bitmaps getting sent over, causing much lag and terrible performance. Not recommended.

Surprising, considering it's origin from web tech.

> Surprising

Or not, your forcing rendered html/dom over the x window protocol. What web tech is in this stack? Only your rendered app on a gtk/qt/wtk(not sure what atom is using, etc) window. Nothing on the network side.

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