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Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#251

Post by k1m »

r721 wrote: post #49

David Allen Green‏, Law and policy commentator at @FT: >It is now easier for US to obtain Assange's extradition, if they (ever) wanted it. >Now only UK's consent required, not UK and Sweden. https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/86550564980685619...

It's worth noting that David Allen Green is not a neutral commentator here. He was very clearly against Assange early on. See this piece where Glenn Greenwald debunks some of his falsehoods. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/24/new-st...

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#253

Post by efraim »

baldajan wrote: post #238

Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. And before that, for years, Assange gave them that offer, but they refused time and time again (until they reluctantly accepted) [2]. As @belorn noted [3], the prosecutors had 3 options, and given it seems like they didn't have enough to make a case or a plan to continue the investigation, it had t…

It's nice of him to offer to answer their questions where he chooses, everyone should have that choice. It wasn't Assange that refused to go back to Sweden, it was Sweden to refused to come to Assange.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#254

Post by Bartweiss »

PJDK wrote: post #146
toyg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This absolutely should not be about politics but about the rule of law. But it is about politics. No other bail-skipper in recent memory was ever granted the attention and resources that the UK police granted to the Assange case. It's also pretty clear by now that the Swedish charges were overblown, with very strong suggestions that it was done for political reasons. Hiding behind procedures will not change that. A…

Has there been any kind of comparable instance though? Had he skipped bail by just not showing up we could compare the manhunt that happened with any other bail skipper. But his location was very publicly known - what would a reasonable government do in that situation in your view?

But isn't the lack of comparable cases exactly the point?

It was claimed upthread that "Assange has made it more likely that future defendants will be denied bail." That sounds good, except that Assange skipped bail by getting political asylum. It's not exactly a generalizable argument against bail, and even within the context of leakers it appears unprecedented. The case is exceptional, which is what makes it politicized and irrelevant to 'normal' bail skip situations.

Regardless of why Assange was wanted, we can still say it's political when Britain threatened to storm a foreign embassy to recover an asylum-seeker. That's an inherently political decision, in the sense that no domestic police force in the Western world would do it without political guidance.

None of which is to say what's true in Assange's case. But I'm not impressed by the arguments "now everyone can beat rape charges by receiving asylum and spending 5 years trapped in a foreign embassy" and "threatening to raid an embassy to capture an asylum grantee is apolitical".

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wikileaks-assange-ecuador-...

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#255

Post by efraim »

nailer wrote: post #162
rmc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you cannot question the accused, it sort of limits what evidence you can collect...

> Well if you cannot question the accused What do you mean? The Swedish prosecutor has been invited to question Assange for the last 5 years and declined to do so until a few months ago.

Julian was invited back to Sweden and he declined. It's not the job of Swedish authorities to fly all over the world to question people of interest, they would get nothing done.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#256

Post by intoverflow2 »

timwaagh wrote: post #161

i dont like it when a rapist goes free. what i like less is his apologists. it is like with trump. if you have enough followers it is apparantly ok to mistreat women. i suppose 5 years of sitting in an ecuadoran embassy is no fun but he still escaped justice.

So innocent until proven guilty isn't a thing anymore?

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#257

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

baldajan wrote: post #238

Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. And before that, for years, Assange gave them that offer, but they refused time and time again (until they reluctantly accepted) [2]. As @belorn noted [3], the prosecutors had 3 options, and given it seems like they didn't have enough to make a case or a plan to continue the investigation, it had t…

Lol. Pretty standard to tell courts and investigators: "Hey, how about we meet at my place instead?" (on top of that at a place where the investigators don't have jurisdiction)

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#258

Post by Bartweiss »

matt4077 wrote: post #86
Sephr wrote: post #14

What about the secret US charges? I honestly don't understand how in our democracy there is even such a concept as "secret charges". It just sounds mind-bogglingly corrupt and out of place.

Don't you need to charge someone with a crime for an arrest warrant (except for "material witness" and other shenanigans)? Because, in that case, wouldn't you want to keep that information under wraps in quite a few cases, and completely legitimately? Preparing to arrest a foreign drug dealer when he's expected to come to the US comes to mind. Just because it's "secret" doesn't make an evil conspiracy against democra…

I agree with all of this, but I'd note that there have still been some exceptional rumblings about Assange in the States.

Specifically, the suggestion was made that by several political figures that he shouldn't be charged until after extradition. Since treason charges can carry the death penalty, and would thereby block extradition from no-death-penalty Sweden, it was proposed that he should be extradited to answer a subpoena (no legal issue), and then immediately charged when delivered to the United States.

To my knowledge, this is pretty bizarre. It blatantly circumvents the intent of most extradition agreements, which is to only extradite where the crime and penalty are acceptable in the host company. Not exactly 'secret charges', since it made the news, but at least an open secret where a subpoena would be issued specifically to avoid normal procedures.

(Of course, nothing ever came of it that I saw. I don't mean to claim there are secret charges, only that this idea might be what people meant.)

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#259

Post by maxerickson »

intoverflow2 wrote: post #256
timwaagh wrote: post #161

i dont like it when a rapist goes free. what i like less is his apologists. it is like with trump. if you have enough followers it is apparantly ok to mistreat women. i suppose 5 years of sitting in an ecuadoran embassy is no fun but he still escaped justice.

So innocent until proven guilty isn't a thing anymore?

The reasonable usage of that has always included "in the eyes of the law".

For example, if someone stabs you, there's no need to wait for a conviction to be upset about it. Some people may choose to get upset about things where they have less direct evidence but still believe they have sufficient evidence to come to a conclusion.

Re: Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation

#260

Post by k1m »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #257
baldajan wrote: post #238

Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. And before that, for years, Assange gave them that offer, but they refused time and time again (until they reluctantly accepted) [2]. As @belorn noted [3], the prosecutors had 3 options, and given it seems like they didn't have enough to make a case or a plan to continue the investigation, it had t…

Lol. Pretty standard to tell courts and investigators: "Hey, how about we meet at my place instead?" (on top of that at a place where the investigators don't have jurisdiction)

It actually is pretty standard. Sweden has done it in many other cases. As Wikileaks highlighted when this was made into an issue.
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