Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes • Hacker News Board

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#251

Post by onli » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:04 AM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #181

douche wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't even hit that limit before they sent in the goons in this case, though.

The actual limit is 4x the price of the ticket, capped at $1350, so it could very well have been down in the $400 range.

There is no limit. It is a minimum, and it does not work like you seem to think it does (if you blame regulations, which is how I read that comment). See https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/...:

> For example, an involuntarily bumped traveler who arrives to his final destination more than two hours late (fours internationally) is entitled to an amount worth 400% of his one-way fare (capped at a maximum of $1,350).

There are no regulations forbidding United to offer more when a passenger is already seated, and that passenger thus can't be legally bumped (apart from because of safety reasons maybe).

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#252

Post by pif » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:16 AM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #247

pif wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that isn't clear, here's an example. Say the planes have a capacity of 100, and on average 2 people fail to show. A sells 100 tickets for $100.00 each. B sells 101 tickets for $99.02 each. As usual, people striving to save one dollar no matter what (in this case, giving up the certainty of flying) are the problem.

It could be much more than one dollar. Those were my made up numbers to demonstrate the principle, not any kind of indication of the magnitude of the real numbers. > As usual, people striving to save one dollar no matter what (in this case, giving up the certainty of flying) are the problem. It's not necessarily a problem. Flyers can choose between certainty of flying and other nice things that cost money. Most appea…

Are you aware of any airline that exploits overbooking while letting you choose a "no-overbooking-for-my-seat" fare?

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#253

Post by awinder » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:29 AM UTC

cbcoutinho wrote: post #230

sytelus wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another solution is even more simpler. After all seats gets booked, they should clearly mark overbooked tickets as "probable" tickets and heavily discount it + refund it if not eventually available. Keep in mind that airlines don't make huge profits per flight. Giving away $10K to 4 passengers is like giving away 80 seats or about 10 to 20% of revenue which could be almost all of their profits for that flight.

Those airlines take a risk by overbooking, and that risk can be penalized by a net negative profit if need be. If you're allowed to gamble, you need to be able to lose.

Yup, and moreover like any good casino it's pretty clear that they did the math already. That's why you're getting $800 fake bucks: they crunch figures on how much of that $800 they'd be on the hook for. If they gave you cash, I bet the inflection point where this entire overbooking scheme is actually fiscally worth it, becomes a losing proposal.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#254

Post by spiraldancing » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:32 AM UTC

ajdlinux wrote: post #238

overgryphon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to 10k in vouchers. I don't even know how someone with a non-travel job would use that many coupons in a year.

You could trivially spend it on a single international holiday if you felt like flying in business or first class...

Actually no, you can't, because they limit how much you can apply to a single flight. To use up $10k in vouchers, it's likely you'd need to make 20-100 flights, before they expired in a year.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#255

Post by QuarterReptile » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:32 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #210

mayneack wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

counter point: i prefer southwest because there's little incentive to fight for position. They give you a complete ordering, so you can wait until the last minute to line up. (also as others mentioned, it's faster which is great too) If you care so much about an aisle seat, get early check in, it's $15.

I try to be the last one one the plane even with assigned seating: it gets really hot and unpleasant on the tarmac, and I'd rather spend less time there.

I'm the same, plus my carry on doesn't have wheels and is soft sided. I go when they make the final call.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#256

Post by pavlov » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:34 AM UTC

zeroer wrote: post #129

johngalt wrote: post #57

The problem isn't overbooking. The problem is not auctioning the seats higher when overbooked. I've seen a number of overbooked southwest flights and people can't line up fast enough for a $300 flight credit + next available flight. I can't imagine it ever going over $1k. IMHO if any airline should continue overbooking it's SWA. No first class, no assigned seats. Most of the flights are short range with multiple flig…

Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are worthless for most people. The vouchers they were offering were only valid at dates United decided. The vouchers expired after a year. And they are offered in coupons for which you can only use one coupon per flight, and the excess value is lost. Practically all n…

In the European Union, airlines are forbidden from offering vouchers as compensation for overbooking. They must pay cash.

Simple solution that fixed a consumer-hostile approach adopted by a cartel of companies. Sadly, the EU rarely gets credit for the great number of consumer protections it has established; instead people like to rant about egregious regulations that either don't exist or have been grossly misrepresented.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#257

Post by kilotaras » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:47 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #240

maherbeg wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually ask for cash. Most people don't realize it's an option but they will give you a cashier's check on the spot.

That's if you're getting involuntarily bumped. Far as I know, if you volunteer, you can only get vouchers.

There's nothing prohibiting you from asking for cash and there's no law that prohibits airline from giving it to you.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#258

Post by namdnay » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 10:50 AM UTC

stephenr wrote: post #227

tomerico wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overbooking makes air travel more effective than, with less empty seats and less pollution per passenger. The way it eas handled can definitely be improved, but you can't argue that it is inherently bad.

> Overbooking makes air travel more effective than, with less empty seats and less pollution per passenger > but you can't argue that it is inherently bad. You're simplifying things a bit too much. You can't go from: - We want to make air travel more cost effective, and less damaging to the environment. And arrive at: - The only way to achieve this, is to sell more tickets than we have physical seats for, to ensure t…

What does this have to do with Americans? Overbooking is used by nearly every airline in the world.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#259

Post by zeroer » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 11:02 AM UTC

ohyes wrote: post #209

jackvalentine wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, in a typical overbooking situation, there are more passengers than seats, so it's unclear who the buyer and sellers are, because none of the "sellers" actually "own" anything definitive. I'm not quite sure I'm following. When the airline overbooks then tries to pay off passengers to accept a different flight the buyer is always the airline. They're buying your seat back from you to satisfy their contract w…

It is a lot like they are short selling their own airline seats.

That's kind of funny. If the auction for seats goes too high, it's a short squeeze.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#260

Post by darklajid » Fri, Apr 28, 2017, 11:23 AM UTC

surement wrote: post #195

thunderstrike wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand how expensive it is to take a taxi that far? Or the fact that taxi/rental car companies usually don't like you going over state lines?

Care to elaborate? I've never had any trouble going over country lines, let alone state lines, in a rental car.

Rental cars (booked in Germany or Switzerland) often included restrictions for me. Most of the time they excluded a number of eastern/balkan states, quoting (if they offered reasons at all) insurance prices would be higher. The more expensive the car, the more likely were these limitations: Booking a Golf was 'go anywhere', booking a BMW 5-something .. not so much.