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India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#251

Post by Kluny »

4684499 wrote: post #174
kirrent wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally in the linked Wikipedia article: "Although cast-iron cookware is known to transmit iron to food during cooking, the cost to obtain it is prohibitive for most of the individuals living in poverty in rural Cambodia, who earn less than $1 per day." In what world would a cast iron pan be cheaper than a small ingot?

What world? I don't know. I searched and find this website before commenting: http://www.luckyironfish.com/shop , which says It costs $25 each, while you can find $22 iron pan on Amazon. Sure it might be cheaper in Cambodia, then the price of iron pans would be lower as well. They didn't just use an ingot, they shaped the ingot into a lucky fish, which also costs money.

It's $25 for you, because online sales are supposed to pay for free distribution.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#252

Post by Kluny »

babyrainbow wrote: post #211
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Ok. "Educated" people don't shit where they drink from. But they do much worse. Things like dumping toxic industrial waste that can make a whole region of people chronically ill to a river..Or drive machines that spew toxic gases literally to the face of fellow human beings.. I mean, is anyone really any better?

I honestly don't think education is the point here. _Dogs_ don't shit where they eat. Pet rats can be persuaded to poop in their cages and not on your couch. There's some kind of pressure happening here that the researchers failed to notice. Maybe leaving the village is unsafe - girls can't walk 50m downstream to a designated toilet because they'll be attacked and raped along the way. Maybe there are tigers. Maybe a tragedy of the commons has occurred where no one is maintaining the designated toilet so it turns into a disgusting pile of feces that reeks from kilmeters away. Why would anyone want to defecate there? The river probably feels cleaner, even if they know better.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#253

Post by vivekd »

tomaskafka wrote: post #237
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Check out how we, the 'wise modern civilization' splash all our chemicals and shit into the rivers and oceans, and then eat fish from there. I bet we will be looked at as 'these savage guys were totally dumb, look at them, it's unbelievable' about 50 - 150 years later. Also, you americans take away your babies from your mothers after few weeks, putting them to a cold hearted institutions, making them frustrated for l…

I don't think that really answers the parent's point. The connection between cholera and shitting where you drink is an obvious one. The connection between putting kids in daycare and polluting the ocean and whatever bad things come out of that are a few times removed and remote. It's a lot easier to see that drinking poo water will make you sick than it is to see that putting kids into daycare will "frustrate them for life."

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#254

Post by azernik »

mjevans wrote: post #84
staticassertion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

That's a case for bending the truth. Find out how to explain it in their existing culture. Curses, uncleanness, etc. There's probably SOMETHING responsible for misfortune, death, and disease. Claim that there is a method which helps battle this, it involves purifying the water with a strong fire for this duration of an hour-glass. Once it is cooled it is, for a short time, safe to use.

One interesting attempt at this was a health intervention in Cambodia. Rural villagers were having iron deficiencies. A cheap countermeasure was to put lumps of iron into boiling broths or water that people were going to drink, but it was hard to convince locals to actually follow through.

So, they made iron lumps in the shape of fish (a local good-luck symbol) and handed them out - increased compliance a lot.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32749629

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#255

Post by vivekd »

blhack wrote: post #26
nemacol wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you are saying, but a turd on the ground is pretty immediate. :P

Well that is true, but the effects that turd has on drinking water and overall health isn't quite as obvious.

isn't it, I mean it lets off a strong order to warn us. Are there people in the world who don't realize that poo is bad for you?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#256

Post by keypress »

avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

It's a little more complicated than digging a hole in the ground. You have to ensure you don't poison the water table with run off or monsoons. Protect them from pests. Aerobic composting is simple when liquids are removed (urine separator and no black water). Pumping air through toilet chambers can help remove smells.

I live in the UK, and as I age, I seem to be loosing control of certain physical faculties. And we have a distinct lack of public toilets, which is ridiculous. You need toilets dotted everywhere which you are comfortable using.

In very highly populated areas using water as a transport has been somewhat miraculous. But it's not always appropriate. Recycling waste locally is probably a good idea where you can.

Night soil sounds primitive, but is pretty neat. Problems arise when raw sewage comes into contact with foods etc. Composting sewage, delays usage, but removes health risks and improves the resulting output.

I actually resent flushing my own turds down the toilet when my garden really could do with the input. But when two thirds of my water bill is for waste, you think twice about constructing alternatives.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#257

Post by keypress »

shard972 wrote: post #245
tomaskafka wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out how we, the 'wise modern civilization' splash all our chemicals and shit into the rivers and oceans, and then eat fish from there. I bet we will be looked at as 'these savage guys were totally dumb, look at them, it's unbelievable' about 50 - 150 years later. Also, you americans take away your babies from your mothers after few weeks, putting them to a cold hearted institutions, making them frustrated for l…

I get your point but at least you get the 1% GDP gain, what upside is there to shitting in your drinking water? It's few steps closer?

A little bit of vitamin B12.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#258

Post by keypress »

staticassertion wrote: post #40
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

Education is key, and I'd like to think the topic could be covered in a couple of sessions.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#259

Post by ace_of_spades »

vivekd wrote: post #253
tomaskafka wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out how we, the 'wise modern civilization' splash all our chemicals and shit into the rivers and oceans, and then eat fish from there. I bet we will be looked at as 'these savage guys were totally dumb, look at them, it's unbelievable' about 50 - 150 years later. Also, you americans take away your babies from your mothers after few weeks, putting them to a cold hearted institutions, making them frustrated for l…

I don't think that really answers the parent's point. The connection between cholera and shitting where you drink is an obvious one. The connection between putting kids in daycare and polluting the ocean and whatever bad things come out of that are a few times removed and remote. It's a lot easier to see that drinking poo water will make you sick than it is to see that putting kids into daycare will "frustrate them f…

But what is interesting about this case and the comparison is that knowledge about something does not necessarily lead to change in behavior. So you should probably argue that it is a lot easier to change the place a village shits than to change the structure and incentives of our globalized economy.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#260

Post by keypress »

thevardanian wrote: post #230
staticassertion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first or second chapter of Diffusion of Innovation covers a case where a health organization official tried to convince people to boil their water. No one did it. The concept of "germs" was so foreign to them, and their beliefs about water were already so ingrained. It was a complete failure. It seems obvious to say "if you drink dirty water you will get sick" but you're assuming that people can make so many conn…

I don't think that maybe necessarily the case as these very people will boil milk before drinking it. It is basic practice in rural India to boil milk before consuming it even if it was straight from the cow. So I find it extremely odd that these very people couldn't connect the dots and make the same leap onto impurity of water.

It's probably as simple that boiling water requires energy and is expensive.
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