Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Saturn moon 'able to support life'

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 268 posts

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#251

Post by aaronblohowiak »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #168
nostrademons wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious if anyone's ever observed something similar to this? It'd be super easy to detect if you're looking for it, but most miners aren't thinking "Hmm, I wonder if a previous intelligent species existed on earth millions of years before us."

I started thinking that another species after us would find it odd that there are so few hydrocarbon deposits - but would they look for something that's not there? Similarly, maybe there's something missing from the Earth that we're just not thinking of because, well, you can't miss something if you never had it.

The fungus (white rot) that breaks down an important binder in woody plants (lignin) had not yet evolved when the plants that make up our coal and gas deposits died. because white rot now exists, we aren't making new coal or oil at anywhere near the same rate.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mushroom-evolutio...

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#252

Post by njwi332 »

nostrademons wrote: post #17
charles-salvia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the developments in exo-planet research along with discoveries like this over the past couple of years, I would conjecture that life is ridiculously common. But by life, I mean microbial life. I would imagine that multi-cellular life is much rarer, and life capable of reaching human-level intelligence and beyond is probably absurdly rare, on the level of something like one species per galaxy. It's all worthl…

I'm kinda curious if there's any evidence that would support or rule out intelligent life having existed on earth before. I mean, if humanity goes extinct and it's another 65 million years before another intelligent species evolves, what evidence would they have of our existence? All our buildings would've long since crumbled into dust or been crushed by plate tectonics. Metal will corrode and rust away after a few t…

Don't forget radioactive waste/byproducts. That will be around for a long time, and thinking about how future humans might interact with it is an interesting problem.

I wrote a little about it http://stochastication.com/2016/06/13/inverse-archaeology/

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#254

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

Swizec wrote: post #128
Pyxl101 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a crazy idea: What if we picked a domesticated animal such as a pig or dog, and began to breed the species for intelligence? Or any other suitable animal. Only intelligence (and general health), over an extended period. It's believed that all of the modern dog breeds came about in the last hundred or so years. Modern domesticated dogs are definitely intelligent, especially socially intelligent. They understand…

> Modern domesticated dogs are definitely intelligent, especially socially intelligent. They understand words, they look you in the eye to get your attention, they understand their name, they seem to have simple emotions. How fast would they evolve if directed scientifically by humans? The crazy thing about birds, parrots especially, is that they do all that without humans directing it. I have a bird at home. The big…

I used to work at a parrot sanctuary[1] and one of the cockatoos had learned the combination to the luggage lock we used to keep his cage shut. Parrots can be very smart.

[1]https://www.freeflightbirds.org/

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#255

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

rojobuffalo wrote: post #194
Swizec wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dominate the planet is tricky too. Corvids for instance are almost as widespread as humans. They don't do greenland and the southern parts of south america. But they happen to be less destructive to their environment than humans so maybe that disqualifies them from the "dominate" part? That said, humans also don't quality for multi-planetary. I like that definition, though.

Good point about corvids. Ants are another example I was thinking about. They actually do engineer ecology on the scale of individual mounds by feeding and growing fungi that they eat. They are spread all over the Earth, and I think they have us beat in terms of biomass. Maybe there could be another definition for a weaker form of intelligence that covers those cases.

Ants are especially interesting. Each individual is very simple, you could probably create an accurate ant model with a (very big) finite state machine. Yet entire colonies are extremely complex. I suspect that it's analogous to human brain cells vs the entire brain. Each cell isn't intelligent alone, but the whole is.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#257

Post by zeroer »

milquetoastaf wrote: post #61
zeroer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recursive grammar.

Being able to live six years without food. Humans can't even come close to that, yet a tiny tick can outlast the so-called smartest species on earth. See, species tit-for-tat is easy. What's your point?

Yea, point taken, but recursive grammar is a prerequisite for arbitrary cognition or computation.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#258

Post by pavel_lishin »

pmalynin wrote: post #225
platz wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rabbit hole

But why not go down a rabbit hole with a child, I feel it could be a wonderful experience that will challenge your beliefs and that of the kid. I don't really get the fascination with ignoring these type of questions: "Dad why is the sky blue" - "Eat your ice cream Timmy".

Because there are 15 other children in the classroom, and they may not get anything out of the discussion - and instead, may miss out on something important for later lessons.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#259

Post by pavel_lishin »

wfn wrote: post #215
Stanleyc23 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the silicon based rock creatures in that one star trek episode? :)

How about cellular automata simulating ( spoiler ) complex life forms in many dimensions, implemented in large polysaccharide constructions? :) (Greg Egan's "Wang's Carpets", later incorporated as a chapter into his "Diaspora".) http://bookre.org/reader?file=222997&pg=1 ( http://archive.is/ocAgN )

I always found that to be a little sad. iirc, the Carpets in the story are completely deterministic - while there is life there, it will always unambiguously lack free will. (Though I suppose they'll never know it.)

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#260

Post by pavel_lishin »

logfromblammo wrote: post #240
Swizec wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern domesticated dogs are definitely intelligent, especially socially intelligent. They understand words, they look you in the eye to get your attention, they understand their name, they seem to have simple emotions. How fast would they evolve if directed scientifically by humans? The crazy thing about birds, parrots especially, is that they do all that without humans directing it. I have a bird at home. The big…

Birds will also play jokes. Example: A bird may call your attention to a near-empty water dish. You fill it up. The bird uses bathing behavior to splash you with the water, and then mimics human laughter. Source: a caique with whom I am acquainted. But birds are also not very sophisticated as comedians. Sometimes their funny prank is indistinguishably similar to a nasty trick. But really, if the bird wanted to be mea…

Reminds me of Larry Niven's descriptions of Dolphin jokes in his Known Space series.
Post reply on HN