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“I have toyota corola”

daniel.haxx.se

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Re: “I have toyota corola”

#251

Post by sedachv »

hinkley wrote: post #200
deong wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "trying to address an issue politically", that sort of implies a context in which you're pushing back against someone else who's already employed a more "Linus-like" approach. That's not what the parent comment was suggesting. Someone like Knuth isn't accused of valuing politics over technical merit because he simply addresses technical merit in a polite way. I'm not one of the people who cares all that…

I love Donald Knuth but let's face it, from a productivity standpoint he's strictly below average. He's a perfectionist and he seems to get distracted easily. Like me, he seems to overly inured to the siren song of Force Multipliers (making other people more productive) and really should have spent more time practicing the craft. If I had it to do over again I probably would have spent a little more time coding and a…

> I love Donald Knuth but let's face it, from a productivity standpoint he's strictly below average.

In fact, Donald Knuth is so below average from a productivity standpoint that there is an entire book published about books and papers that Donald Knuth published: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/cp.html

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#252

Post by ptmcc »

shkkmo wrote: post #127
elFarto wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed how many people get their email address wrong. I have . @gmail.com, which is fine, and hardly gets any mail meant for someone else. @gmail.com however, is basically unusable. Funny thing is, the latter was the one I created first, but I forgot the password so had to create the other. I managed to recover it later and I'm glad I have the former.

Sort of off topic, but did you know that the '.' gets ignored in gmail addresses, you can remove it or add extras and you will still get the email.

This is true in general, but some of the very early Gmail addresses do differentiate based on the '.'

For instance, my very early-adopter Gmail address has a '.' in the address but it is an entirely different account from the one without. If you send mail to the one without the '.' I do not receive it.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#253

Post by mwfunk »

rpcastagna wrote: post #186
paxcoder wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logged in to upvote your comment, hopefully you won't be disuaded by downvotes. Maybe this whole "deal with my being unpleasant" thing stems from people seeking to justify their unwilingness or inability to practice self-control. Whatever the reason it is detrimental and worthy of being opposed to. It's one thing to be unpleasant to people who are obstinate. It's another to be unpleasant to people who are ignorant. A…

I think ldfdr made a good point in his sibling comment that deeming something as "unpleasant" is highly tied to your personal perceptions of what civility is, etc, which is generally rooted in your culture and where you grew up. I think we have to work to understand each other as much as possible and understand people come into conversations with different expectations. I think with someone like Linus we also have to…

He did set the norms, but it's not like he's a godlike being with infinite wisdom or something. If people in his community don't agree with the norms he's established, there's nothing wrong with trying to buck those trends. I would not compare that to going to France and insisting that everyone speak English. Rather, if enough people in his community dislike the examples he sets, then in the analogy, Linus is the person who is demanding everyone speaks English. Community norms are heavily influenced by community leaders, but ultimately community norms are whatever the community consensus is, regardless of the leadership.

None of this is assigning rightness or wrongness to anyone, it's just group dynamics. If he drives people away, he may be OK with that. It may even be his desired outcome. There's nothing wrong with him running things the way he sees fit, and there's nothing wrong with other people thinking he's an ahole and going their separate ways. I'm much more sympathetic to the latter than the former though. In my experience, leaders who are too focused on getting people to respect their authority above all else tend to be the "B's" in the "A's hire A's, B's hire C's" management cliche.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#254

Post by knodi123 »

I can sympathize. I am not hiring, nor am I looking for a job, but I get several resumes and interview offers a day, because some dingus in Andhra Pradesh used my email address to apply for jobs all over the world, and a separate dingus used my email address to make postings on a "tech jobs in india" board.

I used to have an auto-reply to tell them that they're hitting the wrong address, but I suspect most people don't even read my reply, and I know a percentage of those who do are ready to start an argument with me about why I'm wrong. Nature of the internet, I guess.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#255

Post by drzaiusapelord »

chc wrote: post #243
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 For what it's worth, coworkers have pointed out to me how much of a bully Linus has been. I'm not sure it matters that the bullying wasn't directed at them. Bullying is still bullying. To put it another way, would you want your manager to speak to you how Linus spoke to Mauro? Even if it was deserved? Linus also doubles down and insists it's ok: http://arstechnica.com/information-t…

I wouldn't want my manager to speak to me the way Linux spoke to Mauro. I also wouldn't want my manager to tell me to program in Java. I also wouldn't want people to do to me a lot of the things they do in the bedroom. But as long as they don't do it to me, and the people who are doing it are freely consenting, I do not consider it my place to tell them what they may or may not do.

At what level are these people freely consenting? They want to change the kernel and there's only one main linux kernel. So they deal with the bullying gatekeeping and abuse. The idea that they all love Linus's antics is ridiculous.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#256

Post by haneefmubarak »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #225
linsomniac wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to say that if you don't have experience from the receiving end... For a very long time I ran publicly accessible NTP servers. Usually this required little to no maintenance, sometimes we'd get hammered (like when a large ISP rebooted all of their customers boxes at the same time). But usually it wasn't a big deal. Now, when you have hundreds of thousands of people using your services, it doesn't take many…

>and our support number included an option users could select // Did you charge callers. I wonder if "you will be billed £20 for this call [or $30 or whatever]; current customers will have this cost refunded" would be enough (even if you never charged) to put people off.

Not the parent, but that actually seems like a pretty solid idea. Is this actually something that can be done?

Alternatively, why not just require the customer to enter their 10+ digit account number to proceed further?

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#257

Post by purerandomness »

chc wrote: post #246
peterwwillis wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent is irrellevant. We have a society specifically to police each other. And because we suck at both policing each other and achieving consensus and cooperation, we have government. In terms of profanity, if someone says "man, I had a really shitty day today", that's not really harmful and doesn't have significant consequences. But when someone says "you are a real piece of shit", that is harmful, and does have c…

The other day, I tried an underhanded trick in a board game and won, and my friend said something along the lines of "You are a real piece of shit." She was really frustrated that I'd managed to trick her like that, but I knew there wasn't any real hatred underneath and I took it as a compliment. Would you harass my friend for our friendly banter, since the fact that we are both 100% OK with the conversation is irrel…

Replying to sibling, as nesting level reached:

This is a wonderful example of why human communication isn't only based on the semantic meaning of words. Flirting, sarcasm, irony - all would be lost to someone just parsing words, not being able to understand the finer communication on a subconscious level: Body language, rapport, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who would call someone out on that language have a higher chance on being diagnosed with autism or sociopathy - which in itself isn't bad at all, but it helpts being aware that communication between humans is apparently perceived completely differently by different groups.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#258

Post by sedachv »

wyager wrote: post #161
cesarbs wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a leader does not justify being an asshole.

It's a survival mechanism. Not everyone has the time or ability to be nice to everyone they have to deal with in a position like Torvalds'.

> It's a survival mechanism. Not everyone has the time or ability to be nice to everyone they have to deal with in a position like Torvalds'.

Flaming someone on a mailing list takes as much time as being nice to them. If it was about time then Linus could just ignore or dismiss things without going out of his way to type up insults.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#259

Post by sedachv »

dpark wrote: post #154
cesarbs wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a leader does not justify being an asshole.

Nowhere did willhslade say that it does. He said that comparing Knuth's style to Torvalds's isn't very enlightening because they are fundamentally engaged in different activities. Comparing Knuth to Torvalds and saying "look, you don't have to be an asshole to be a great leader" is like comparing Usain Bolt to Dean Karnazes and saying "look, you don't have to be really muscular to be a great sprinter." The comparison…

> Find a successful leader of a large-scale piece of software who doesn't have a reputation for being an asshole and use them for the comparison.

So pretty much everyone except for Torvalds and de Raadt? Those guys are the exception and not the rule.

Re: “I have toyota corola”

#260

Post by fowl2 »

ptmcc wrote: post #252
shkkmo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of off topic, but did you know that the '.' gets ignored in gmail addresses, you can remove it or add extras and you will still get the email.

This is true in general, but some of the very early Gmail addresses do differentiate based on the '.' For instance, my very early-adopter Gmail address has a '.' in the address but it is an entirely different account from the one without. If you send mail to the one without the '.' I do not receive it.

God I love edge cases / grandfathering
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