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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#251

Post by Broken_Hippo »

djsumdog wrote: post #28
jedberg wrote: post #16

There was a study a while back that showed that the USA has eight times as many parking spaces as it has cars. At first that seems crazy, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all the places you go in a day need to have enough parking to meet their peak demand all year, so places like malls have huge empty lots most of the year until Christmas rolls around. And then there is the spot your car is in at w…

I think we wouldn't see things as being nearly this bad if all American cities didn't rip out their tram networks. Every city I've lived in, even small ones with ~100k people, use to have Streetcars. Today, cities like Cincinnati struggle to get a tiny segment put in. Trams carry a ton more people than buses. People are more likely to ride them too. If American cities hadn't given in to GM and Ford and kept streetcar…

Trams require a different sort of infrastructure to install and maintain and are less flexible than a bus system.

Busses use much more of the existing infrastructure, which is one of the main reasons cities struggle to get a tiny segment put in. Busses are also much more adjustable to the city's needs. You can increase and decrease frequency on routs - or change routes by moving stops. Construction? Adjust routes. One bus down? Off the the mechanic and replace it with one of the backups.

And I'm not sure that would have helped parking and car ownership in the US. For some time, part of the dream was to own a car. A car meant freedom and it often still does as the us, as a whole, lacks decent public transportation outside of the larger cities. Sometimes the busses are stopped before the bars close, for example. Traveling from city to city? Good luck or prepare to be majorly inconvenienced. (overnight layovers, for example).

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#252

Post by languagewars »

tjic wrote: post #245

Meh. You also pay for the cost of public parks even if you never use them. You pay for the cost of government elementary schools even if you homeschool your kids. etc. Now, I'm an anarchocapitalist and would love to see all of these costs unbundled, so that we each pay only for what we use. ...but the other 99.9% of folks in our society think that it is reasonable to have one-size-fits-all solutions, where a single b…

I find this a little different than your examples since it is government forcing your actions within the private market, not forcing you to pay for its bundle of services. There is no cost to the system to stop doing this one, it just would make car drivers as frustrated as dog owners when they shop for an apartment in a metro area.

Given how much funding already goes to roads I would say enough is enough. But there is a risk of more long distance commuters, and it is hard to claw back the subsidies that make them.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#253

Post by op00to »

badsock wrote: post #120
op00to wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right and you're wrong - trucks generally don't pay the true cost of their road usage, but neither do motorists, at least through gas taxes and tolls. Much of our road funding comes from other sources like sales taxes and such. Which seems really funny when public transportation is constantly expected to pay for itself, but far more inefficient private motor vehicles don't have to pay their fair share.

Here in Canada that's generally not the case: http://globalnews.ca/news/907665/ontario-motorist-fees-taxes... "The report released Thursday found Ontario road users driving cars, minivans, SUVs and light pickup trucks are paying 70 to 90 per cent of the costs of the road through fuel taxes, vehicle registration fees and tolls, to the tune of $7.5 billion a year." But the OP is a US article, so point taken!

Great point. Curious if that figure is talking about construction costs, maintenance costs, or a combination.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#254

Post by verbify »

tjic wrote: post #247
verbify wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can already make these tradeoffs for yourself by moving to SF or Manhattan, which is generally ill-advised unless you make so much that the astronomical housing costs don't hurt too badly. The shoe is on the other foot. The reason why rent is so high in these places is because there's a lot of demand to live there - people do find it desirable. If more cities were built like SF or Manhattan (i.e. there was more…

> The reason why rent is so high in these places is because there's a lot of demand to live there - No. Mere demand alone does not raise costs. There is a lot of demand for water, but it is still super cheap. Prices are high when demand is high and supply is low. The reason that prices in Manhattan and SF are high is because (a) lots of people want to live there, and simultaneously (b) government policies severely li…

You've worded it better, so thank you, but I believe my main point stands.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#255

Post by ue_ »

tjic wrote: post #245

Meh. You also pay for the cost of public parks even if you never use them. You pay for the cost of government elementary schools even if you homeschool your kids. etc. Now, I'm an anarchocapitalist and would love to see all of these costs unbundled, so that we each pay only for what we use. ...but the other 99.9% of folks in our society think that it is reasonable to have one-size-fits-all solutions, where a single b…

>Now, I'm an anarchocapitalist and would love to see all of these costs unbundled, so that we each pay only for what we use.

Anarchocapitalism isn't anarchistic, as capitalism necessarily entails the establishment of at least two classes: the proletariat and bourgeoisie, defined in terms of the relationship to the means of production.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/daibhidh-anarcho-huc...

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#256

Post by cauterized »

mantas wrote: post #139
zik wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an example of a good tram system: http://dyob.com.au/sites/default/files/u9/96%20North%20Carlt... It's separated from the traffic so it's fast, doesn't have associated tyre and asphalt maintenance costs, and each tram carries over 200 people maximum. The service is frequent - about every five to seven minutes - and much smoother and more comfortable than a bus.

My city don't have trams but there was a political push to build them. However, bus routes were upgraded instead. Result is better than trams IMO. Some key points we do: - Popular buses run ever 5-ish minutes during peak times - Some buses have extension and cary a crapload of people. - Problematic spots have bus-only lanes. What is better than tram: - Buses that share only a bit of the route can use those lanes too…

Bus lanes are only as good as their enforcement. Which in my experience has typically been near zero. The de jure bus lane is the de facto parking lane.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#257

Post by losteverything »

cobbzilla wrote: post #173

I'm wondering what are the myriad other ways that low-income folks are silently taxed? higher interest rates, housing codes, regulatory compliance (leading to higher prices), and possibly even the minimum wage come to mind (I'm sure there's much more), thus always keeping "the basics" expensive enough to be out of reach.

I worked at a hotel and a woman asked to use the phone. She said she was robbed earlier and has no money. She called the local priest to get a ride. It was to the motel where she lived that night.

I drove her there and found out she worked at McDonald's. (Near the hotel).

When I talked to the priest he said she was homeless. That she had a network of people that help her.

That one instance made me realize how transportation especially a car was essential. Then - she uses same day places to cash her check. Keeps cash with her always since she has no bank. Has no phone number or address. How many silent taxes on her hurt entry back into my familiar society?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#258

Post by adrianN »

tjic wrote: post #245

Meh. You also pay for the cost of public parks even if you never use them. You pay for the cost of government elementary schools even if you homeschool your kids. etc. Now, I'm an anarchocapitalist and would love to see all of these costs unbundled, so that we each pay only for what we use. ...but the other 99.9% of folks in our society think that it is reasonable to have one-size-fits-all solutions, where a single b…

Isn't people saying "I would like this government policy changed" an essential step in a working democracy?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#259

Post by mac01021 »

The same phenomenon applies to credit cards, for which all the merchants bake the processing fees into the prices of goods and services whether you pay with a card or not.

I'm not sure which instance of this phenomenon incurs the greater cost for most people, though.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#260

Post by Klockan »

tjic wrote: post #247
verbify wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can already make these tradeoffs for yourself by moving to SF or Manhattan, which is generally ill-advised unless you make so much that the astronomical housing costs don't hurt too badly. The shoe is on the other foot. The reason why rent is so high in these places is because there's a lot of demand to live there - people do find it desirable. If more cities were built like SF or Manhattan (i.e. there was more…

> The reason why rent is so high in these places is because there's a lot of demand to live there - No. Mere demand alone does not raise costs. There is a lot of demand for water, but it is still super cheap. Prices are high when demand is high and supply is low. The reason that prices in Manhattan and SF are high is because (a) lots of people want to live there, and simultaneously (b) government policies severely li…

Exactly, and since high density cities are more common in Europe it is also more affordable there.
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