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Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

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Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#251
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds a lot like all the people that bash StackOverflow - "It's just posts and a voting system, I could write that in a week!", ignoring all the complexity and design behind it, operating at scale and cultivating the environment. If people need something to be 'amazing' not to put it down, and 'amazing' doesn't include doing the right things to be highly successful... If no one else did it, was it really so obvio…

People bash StackOverflow for their draconian moderation, not because it would be technically trivial to implement (it wouldn't, nothing at scale is).

I've seen both. The "draconian moderation" is also the reason for their success.

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#252
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate? Everyone i know loves slack. I love slack. I've used it for my last two companies for (~many) years now. That doesn't make it innovative though, imo. I can't think of a single feature they've done that is innovative. Attaching a file to a message?. Searching history? These aren't new or special in any way shape or form. What slack did far more than UI, was UX. Top to bottom, it's a very nice UX. It's why i love…

It sounds a lot like all the people that bash StackOverflow - "It's just posts and a voting system, I could write that in a week!", ignoring all the complexity and design behind it, operating at scale and cultivating the environment. If people need something to be 'amazing' not to put it down, and 'amazing' doesn't include doing the right things to be highly successful... If no one else did it, was it really so obvio…

Stack overflow benefits from tremendous network effects while Slack does not.

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#253

Does Slack even understand that there are MANY enterprise companies that don't use Slack simply because it's NOT Microsoft? Hubris is rarely a good quality.

Actually, they don't use Slack because Slack would be the most expensive piece of software they license. The enterprise model from Slack is so prohibitively expensive it's like they're intentionally trying to drive away large customers.

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#254
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds a lot like all the people that bash StackOverflow - "It's just posts and a voting system, I could write that in a week!", ignoring all the complexity and design behind it, operating at scale and cultivating the environment. If people need something to be 'amazing' not to put it down, and 'amazing' doesn't include doing the right things to be highly successful... If no one else did it, was it really so obvio…

People bash StackOverflow for their draconian moderation, not because it would be technically trivial to implement (it wouldn't, nothing at scale is).

Stack overflow was hugely popular before their draconian moderation. And I use it less because of it. The most valuable questions I have as a developer are things like "what are they trade offs between using system.js or webpack". "How should I use flux Or redux to get the most benefit?" Or "how does the js build ecosystem work". These are much more valuable in my opinion then "I got error 4602 how do I solve it?".

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Top to bottom, it's a very nice UX. It's why i love Slack. I wouldn't even credit them with that. 20 minutes ago I yet again pressed up-arrow to scroll up one line to see a message off the top of the page and yet again it dropped me into an editing prompt for my last message. What? And then there's the click-click-click of jumping between channels to see the latest messages, instead of having some form of summary.…

I've long thought that an aggregated screen holding all unread message (with a button to expand +/- 5 lines) was sorely missing from Slack.

[deleted]

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#256
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People bash StackOverflow for their draconian moderation, not because it would be technically trivial to implement (it wouldn't, nothing at scale is).

I've seen both. The "draconian moderation" is also the reason for their success.

That's highly debatable. I use it despite the moderation. Half the questions I get answers for are "closed, off topic".

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#257
post #4

When Steve Jobs "Welcomed IBM" with a full page ad, it was fun. It fit the vibe of who he was and the slightly rebellious marketing campaigns Apple was running. Slack's "Welcome Microsoft" letter felt weird. It felt disconnected from the company and product many of us love and use every day. Might have been stronger to silently add a feature to Slack that lets you communicate with Microsoft Team's members.

Apple's add was rebellious in the sense that they weren't trying to intimidate or smear a competitor, they wrote a genuine welcome. Slack's ad, by comparison, is a passive aggressive roommate leaving weird, indecipherable post it notes on the fridge.

I felt the same way. It was not genuine nor was it encouraging competition. Just because Slack built a very good product does not mean other companies are not allowed to compete with them especially one that already has an immense user base in the office/enterprise market.

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#258
post #27
post #3

It's funny that Slack thinks they've perfectly balanced a unique and special snowflake on the tip of a unicorn's horn when what they've really done is added a pretty UI to IRC. It's a chat room. With channels. So, sorry to tell you guys, but it's not innovative, it's lucky. We had chat rooms back in 1995. Yes, that scrappy startup Microsoft will not have too much trouble implementing a chat room and they don't need l…

I'm really weirded out that people can't see the value Slack added. Having your messages stored while you are offline is hugely valuable. If I have been out of signal range on a train, I want to be able to look at history on my phone once I'm back in range of a cell tower. Beyond that, a well made UI for web, desktop and phone that is consistent is valuable. 'Adding a pretty UI' isn't a zero-effort or skill thing. No…

XMPP/Jabber has always supported offline message storage.

I don't hate Slack; heck, I've never even used it. But like _many_ people I'm disappointed that we still don't have a non-proprietary, federated IM system. That leaves most of us ambivalent, and some of us bitter.

IRC is still around, but IRC isn't a substitute for IM. IRC can't be truly federated because there's no global directory or routing the way there is for SMS or XMPP.

XMPP is still around. I can even chat with a few GTalk stragglers, and quite a few tech-savvy people still run their own XMPP servers. But it seems to be on the decline. For a brief period it was gaining corporate momentum, but that stopped years ago.

My company still uses XMPP for corporate IM. Fortunately, nobody can agree whether to move to IRC, HipChat, or Slack. So for now I can actually instant message with co-workers from my personal XMPP server/account. That was actually useful when I was on contract and didn't have (or want to deal with) juggling and logging onto corporate accounts.

Somebody else suggested Slack was like the iPhone, in that it offered features and usability previously unimagined. I don't think so. The iPhone wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't a _phone_. It would have just been a fancy minicomputer if it didn't have the built-in capability to interoperate with any other phone, and participate in the global federated telephone and SMS network.

For all of Slacks features, they pale in comparison to what _could_ be. They could still create a better IM client, with better searching, indexing, etc, etc. But if it supported global federation a la XMPP, the sky would be the limit. Instead of the Internet people are simply excited about an upgraded AOL experience.

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Slack even allow on-premise installs yet? That instantly disqualified them from the last 3 jobs I've had. (All of which had data protection issues that prevented them from using off-premises IM systems, mostly HIPAA regulations.) Microsoft's got that market already sewn-up, right out of the gate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Microsoft Team doesn't currently have a self-hosted option. I hope it's in the pipeline because my company can't use an offsite IM service. It would be nice if Microsoft added support and then Slack followed. Competition is good!

Mattermost is an open source, self-hosted Slack-alternative: https://www.mattermost.org/what-slack-might-learn-from-its-o...

Re: Slack may regret its letter to Microsoft

#260
post #136

Wow... So if I understand correctly : 1) They decided to mess with a company having $500B in-cash 2) Which decided to attack their low barrier-to-entry market 3) And took the unusual revealing step of building its own instead of buying 4) And is playing in its comfort zone (productivity tools, Office, API, cloud-scale integration points : azure, azure marketplace etc...) 5) While having a pool of 90M trustful paying…

Who said Microsoft has $500B in cash? They have ~$100B in cash
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