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David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

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Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#251

Post by mc32 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #207
darkr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

"he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it." The funny thing is that basically Cameron used a similar gamble to be elected. Push Brexit referendum, and hope for a Remain outcome. I mean, it would be funny if the well-being of millions of people would not be impacted by all this gambling.

The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting the EU the voters voted to leave.

Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#252

Post by dajohnson89 »

Angostura wrote: post #123
yabatopia wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call someone who needs a nationwide referendum to silence opposition within his own party a very good leader.

It wasn't just to silence opposition within his own party. It was also to stop the haemorrhaging of support from all mainstream parties towards UKIP. It was a reasonable gamble that failed.

That's like saying betting the house on one of Germany, Italy, or Spain winning the Euro cup is a reasonable gamble.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#253

Post by jsprogrammer »

Grue3 wrote: post #223
geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.

He justified policy actions by what happens on prime-time cop soaps.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#254

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

Yhippa wrote: post #239
Analemma_ wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst lead…

What I don't understand is that isn't this what the people wanted? Across the pond it sounds like he tried to call someone's (pro-Brexit) bluff and lost. At the end of the day it sounds like this is what the people wanted though. I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.

People used the pro-Brexit vote as a proxy vote for other issues: Anti-establishment, anti-politician, anti-immigrant, anti-corporation, etc.

The same exact undertones that drive Trump's support in the US (and to a lesser extent Sanders) were what drove the Brexit movement. Many of these people don't even understand the EU, they just want to give the finger to everyone who happened to be on the Remain side.

The vast majority of people who voted for it were older, so won't have to live with the consequences, or working class who outright rejected the arguments of experts/academics/etc. This was a "my heartfelt ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge" situation.

So, yes, 500K more people voted for Brexit than voted to Remain. But what is it that they actually were voting for? If you listen to them talk or look at surveys, it had little to do with the EU beyond immigration.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#255

Post by onion2k »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #117
CommanderData wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Austerity" is not to blame for this. Austerity would be to blame for this - it contributed to people being more anti-immigrant, though indirectly. Him calling the referendum, the outcome - are related to his parties policies without isolation.

We haven't had austerity in the UK, we have had nothing like what Spain or Greece have had to deal with.

We've not had austerity of the same severity as Spain or Greece but that's not to say we haven't had it. We have. Cameron (and Boris, Gove, etc) have no idea how it's affected poor people.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#256

Post by keithpeter »

edent wrote: post #53
pyb wrote: post #49

What has he ever done, other than reletentlessy dividing his country, every way he could, for all of his 6 years ?

Equal Marriage was a good move which was broadly supported. Other than that, not much.

Yes, the resignation speech mentioned the equal marriage legislation and foreign aid specifically. I suspect that is a semaphore for the successor (who will be further to the right) to leave those firmly alone.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#257

Post by keithpeter »

arethuza wrote: post #186
PietdeVries wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it begins... If a Brexit-fanatic like Boris somehow gets hold of the UK, and Trump does the same in the US, we'll be looking back at "those good old days prior to June 2016" in no time... The world-economy will get more introvert, like the "me first" kids at school who don't care about the rest. And that will be the fuel of the upcoming unrest in the rest of the world...

I can see Farage in the cabinet within the next year - maybe he will fold up UKIP as its job is done and join the right wing of the conservatives.

There are a lot of trad labour voters who are interested in the UKIP message (or what they perceive it to be). Good mileage for splitting what is left of Labour vote in marginals in next election.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#258

Post by msabalau »

Spearchucker wrote: post #226
sievebrain wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from...

Thanks for that, interesting observations. Still sceptical though (not saying you're wrong), given the UK huge trade deficit and now a weak £.

A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers,which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#260

Post by mstade »

mc32 wrote: post #251
Kurtz79 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it." The funny thing is that basically Cameron used a similar gamble to be elected. Push Brexit referendum, and hope for a Remain outcome. I mean, it would be funny if the well-being of millions of people would not be impacted by all this gambling.

The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting the EU the voters voted to leave. Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

Well, lots of people also voted for the EU – it was far from unanimous after all.
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