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251–260 of 394 posts

Re: Trump

#251

Post by AnimalMuppet »

aerovistae wrote: post #245
sremani wrote: post #106

For the love of 100 million people dead in Europe in a short span of 32 years. Please stop comparing every other 'Native Populist' to Hitler, Mussolini etc. The politics may look similar, yes, there is a racial undertone to it, but seriously, argue the facts not fiction. Comparing Trump to Hitler is intersection of intellectual overreach and laziness.

Disagree. The comparison is between Trump and what Hitler seemed to be before he revealed himself in full as what he truly was. The analogy is completely sound. We are comparing to late 1920s Hitler, not 1940s hitler. It's an important distinction.

Keep in mind, though, that not everybody who sounded like late 1920s Hitler turned into 1940s Hitler. (Can't think of any counterexamples off the top of my head, but I suspect there are more who didn't than more who did.)

But it's kind of like safety engineering: You plan for the worst possible accident, not for the happiest possible outcome. If Hitler is the worst possible outcome of electing Trump, that's bad enough that even Hillary looks good. Not that I could vote for Hillary, but I sure ain't voting for Trump.

Re: Trump

#252

Post by davidw »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #249
davidw wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit worried about what will happen if he loses and does not accept it.

If by "loses" you mean "loses the general election", that could be a bit problematic. In 2000, Bush mainly kept his mouth shut. But Gore's campaign manager made a series of public statements along the lines of "Gore has clearly won, and if this goes to Bush it's a travesty of the election." That didn't help heal or unite the country after the election; arguably, the division has remained ever since. Trump could do th…

I mean him exhorting his followers to 'do something about it'.

Re: Trump

#253

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #211
minimaximus wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll play your game. First, the judge situation is not the worst thing about Trump, it's actually a very very minor thing in the scheme of things, but I agree with you on the Iranian judge blocking, that is a very wrong and racist decision by whoever decided on it in the Obama admin, but it doesn't mean that, just because Obama did it, it's ok for Trump to do it. Furthermore, the only reason Trump is calling bias…

I'm not arguing that you should vote for Trump. I'm just pointing out the lies and distortion. People should make their decision based on facts. > Trump is calling bias here is because he knows that he antagonized people of Mexican origin Doesn't matter. Even if Trump deliberately antagonized people of Mexican origin, he still deserves fair treatment in court. > Re: Muslim ban/profiling Muslim profiling is the de fac…

> Doesn't matter. Even if Trump deliberately antagonized people of Mexican origin, he still deserves fair treatment in court.

Why do you think he isn't getting it? Because he complains? You haven't followed very many court cases if that's how you judge judicial bias.

Or do you have actual concrete evidence from the court case itself to demonstrate bias?

> I do agree with his position on removing illegal immigrants. They're a modern slave labor class in America that is being capitalized by the rich.

True. Either remove them (and block more) or give those already here a way to "go legit" (and still block the border).

Re: Trump

#254

Post by mikeash »

antisthenes wrote: post #247
mikeash wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where Obama is "black" but not "white," race is whatever people want it to be.

That's what most debates end up like on the internet. Parties just endlessly change definitions of terms until it fits their narrative.

It's hard to avoid when the topic is race, since there are no real definitions to begin with, and nearly everything about it is arbitrary.

Re: Trump

#255

Post by AnimalMuppet »

davidw wrote: post #252
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "loses" you mean "loses the general election", that could be a bit problematic. In 2000, Bush mainly kept his mouth shut. But Gore's campaign manager made a series of public statements along the lines of "Gore has clearly won, and if this goes to Bush it's a travesty of the election." That didn't help heal or unite the country after the election; arguably, the division has remained ever since. Trump could do th…

I mean him exhorting his followers to 'do something about it'.

Yeah, that could get... interesting. And deadly.

Re: Trump

#256

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #224
mej10 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever there is no evidence to support their claim and they haven't taken steps to prove otherwise, yes.

There is evidence to support the claim. The judge released information that he wasn't supposed to (judge reversed the release later), and he set the first court day on the day of the GOP convention. There's a few other things too. How is that no evidence? That is evidence to support the claim. Is it proof? Is it enough to condemn the judge? I don't know, but it is false to say that Trump came out of nowhere with this…

But see, the way this is supposed to work is, you tell the court about it. If that doesn't work, you tell the appeals court about it. You don't throw claims like this around in the national media (at least, normal litigants don't).

Re: Trump

#257

Post by argonaut »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #197
mej10 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump: Jake, if he was giving me fair rulings, I wouldn't be talking to you this way. He's given me horrible rulings. Tapper: But I don't care if you criticize him. That's fine. You can criticize every decision. What I'm saying is, if you invoke his race as a reason why he can't do his job ... Trump: I think that's why he's doing it.

Those quotes prove my point. Trump did not say he can't do his job because of his heritage. He said he isn't doing his job, and that he thinks it's because of his heritage. And there's nothing racist about that conclusion. People do act based on their identity and heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that. If it affects their rulings as a judge, then that's problem, and all Trump has said is that he's not getting…

Look, I get that Trump is saying "Unfair rulings, caused by being Mexican." But this is no different from "He is Mexican, which causes unfair rulings." It's logically equivalent.

If you said "She is dumb because she's a girl," you would be (rightfully) pilloried for being sexist. No reasonable person is going to interpret that statement like you are interpreting Trump's comments.

Re: Trump

#258

Post by argonaut »

liberte82 wrote: post #239

I'm a little shocked at how many Trump supporters are in this thread. Is Trump popular in the startup scene?

It's an Internet thing. The Donald Trump subreddit on Reddit is extremely popular, I'm sure a bunch of them have moved over to this thread for a moment.

Re: Trump

#259

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mindslight wrote: post #42

If there were a worthwhile contender, then perhaps I'd consider voting. As it is, I don't see how casting a vote for Johnson does anything more than legitimize the election and thereby our totalitarian democracy. And that's exactly what Trump and his rhetoric are - inevitable products of late-game democracy. If he does beat Shillary in the finals, it will at least be nice having most of my peers back to an anti-gover…

Voting for Johnson (or any third-party candidate) is a way of telling both major parties that they messed up in choosing their candidates. It's a message worth sending.

Re: Trump

#260

Post by whamlastxmas »

aerovistae wrote: post #245
sremani wrote: post #106

For the love of 100 million people dead in Europe in a short span of 32 years. Please stop comparing every other 'Native Populist' to Hitler, Mussolini etc. The politics may look similar, yes, there is a racial undertone to it, but seriously, argue the facts not fiction. Comparing Trump to Hitler is intersection of intellectual overreach and laziness.

Disagree. The comparison is between Trump and what Hitler seemed to be before he revealed himself in full as what he truly was. The analogy is completely sound. We are comparing to late 1920s Hitler, not 1940s hitler. It's an important distinction.

Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and outlined the vast majority of Hitler's beliefs and plans.
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