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Coming changes to Apple's App Store

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Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#251

Post by Androider »

nitrogen wrote: post #214
Androider wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, perhaps even most, popular mobile apps have some sort of online component that will surely stop working if the business is closed. And apps made for an OS two releases back or more regularly seem to stop working if not updated. I know I've certainly got paid apps that simply do not work at all anymore. This is not a new phenomenon. Try running a game made for Windows XP or even Photoshop 6.0 on Windows 10, it l…

I disagree with the subscription model helping in the long run, because with a flat fee model, you at least have a chance of keeping the old version running. If I like something and the developers add new features, I'll buy the upgrades to get new features; that's how developer incentives can align with mine.

A subscription model doesn't automatically exclude running old versions after you stop the subscription, see for example the IntellIJ by Jetbrains model.

The "available in the next version" effect of one-time purchased software creates bad incentives for the developers to exclusively focus on new features even if they're gimmicks, because that's the only thing that brings in the money. As a customer, I literally cannot give them money (except gifting copies to friends) just to keep polishing what they have even if that's exactly what I'd like them to focus on.

I've found that after Adobe switched to Creative Cloud, and Jetbrains to their yearly subscriptions, I've benefited as a customer of Photoshop and IntelliJ respectively by both more rapid releases of genuinely useful features, not in big-bang releases but constantly over time, and that they've stepped up their general polish in the products. Photoshop CC is SO MUCH BETTER these days than the always buggy yearly releases of the past, because they don't have to cram 51 new crap features in every 12 months! A developer with a subscription model doesn't have the constant feature pressure, and can work on what the majority of current customers values most, and some times that is just bug fixing and polish.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#252

Post by Androider »

rodgerd wrote: post #230
Androider wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, perhaps even most, popular mobile apps have some sort of online component that will surely stop working if the business is closed. And apps made for an OS two releases back or more regularly seem to stop working if not updated. I know I've certainly got paid apps that simply do not work at all anymore. This is not a new phenomenon. Try running a game made for Windows XP or even Photoshop 6.0 on Windows 10, it l…

> Try running a game made for Windows XP [...] on Windows 10, it likely doesn't work even in the backwards compatibility modes. This is the exact opposite of truth. Windows 95? Sure. But XP? Rubbish.

Don't I wish that were true. Off the top of my head, I know for a fact that a few of the Splinter Cell series games are impossible to run nowadays, and other games that used the same Ubi DRM too. And I just can't seem to get the original Fallout 3 working for either love or money.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#253

Post by 6stringmerc »

rtpg wrote: post #223
6stringmerc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, as revenue comes in from an app, adding more features to entice more buyers, then giving existing users more features (which in turn will theoretically result in better word-of-mouth) can have a positive feedback loop.

And when you hit peak users (say, 100% of the market) you now have no money to support more upgrades. So despite the fact that pretty much everyone will want continued improvements, nobody will get anything.

So time for the next program/app, right?

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#254

Post by Androider »

rpgmaker wrote: post #217
bad_user wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't many apps that can save you 1000/year. I keep hearing this, but that's nonsense. If a "service" is not producing money and isn't saving you time allowing you to produce money, then it's not worth paying for. Yes, I have subscriptions for IntelliJ IDEA, for Dropbox, for FastMail and for a DigitalOcean VPS. All these are producing money for me. But the list ends here. Because here's the thing: $5/month her…

> More importantly, subscriptions are immoral because the end result is robbing users of any sense of ownership. I don't know why people allowed this transition from software ownership to subscription to happen (although they really weren't given the choice). It's ridiculous that the customer is giving away his MS Office ownership in exchange for the marginal improvements that MS has been doing in the last couple of…

IntelliJ IDEA is crazy cheap if you're being paid as a software developer or have developers on your payroll.

I wish there was more software like it that can just instantly make all my developers more effective. The cost is so minuscule compared to what it actually costs to keep a developer's butt in the chair, I'd be a complete idiot to try to save a few bucks on the tools they use.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#256

Post by theli0nheart »

alttab wrote: post #164
theli0nheart wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I for one hate renting things, I prefer ownership. I applaud your idealism, but with this attitude, you might as well not buy any apps at all. When you buy an app, or TV show, or pretty much anything digital in 2016, you're purchasing a license, not the thing itself. You don't "own" anything. Even if you can download the app you buy in 2016 in 5 years from now, what are the odds that it still works on whatever oper…

I still buy Blu Ray box sets. I own the shit out of those, and can watch Indiana Jones when the power is out as long as my generator is running.

I would not consider a Blu Ray box set "digital" in any way. That's a physical item that you physically place into a physical player.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#257

Post by cloudjacker »

djrogers wrote: post #141
cloudjacker wrote: post #74

They need to make cancelling subscriptions easier

it's like 3 clicks to find your entire list of subscriptions and once you're there it's 2 clicks to turn off automatic renewal. Plus TFA said they're making it even easier, so what exactly is your complaint?

on your phone? how? last I tried it involved going to iTunes on a desktop

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#258

Post by makomk »

Androider wrote: post #252
rodgerd wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try running a game made for Windows XP [...] on Windows 10, it likely doesn't work even in the backwards compatibility modes. This is the exact opposite of truth. Windows 95? Sure. But XP? Rubbish.

Don't I wish that were true. Off the top of my head, I know for a fact that a few of the Splinter Cell series games are impossible to run nowadays, and other games that used the same Ubi DRM too. And I just can't seem to get the original Fallout 3 working for either love or money.

As someone pointed out elsewhere in the discussion, app subscriptions mean DRM that's basically guaranteed to kill your ability to run the software once it gets old and everyone loses interest. If there aren't enough people buying old games for the publishers to keep them working, it's unlikely enough people would be willing to subscribe to make it worth their while maintaining the subscription processing.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#259

Post by forgetsusername »

veidr wrote: post #244
sambe wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite obviously biased and overstated. Many subscription models have nothing to do with tricking people or making it hard to cancel and many customers of those continue to pay knowingly and willingly and appreciate the convenience of agreeing to this up-front instead of manually renewing multiple services each month. For example, my water provider. My Netflix subscription. You cannot just ignore this because it doesn…

> many customers of those continue to pay knowingly and willingly and appreciate the convenience Yes, I fully agree. > Many subscription models have nothing to do with tricking people I don't agree with this, at least for auto-renewing subscriptions; that's my point. Every piece of software sold on auto-renewing subscription has some significant number of subscribers (as a percentage of its total number of them) that…

>that don't actually want it.

Why is it the company's responsibility to determine if a user "really wants it" or not? If the subscription is live, the assumption is that the service is desired. Personal accountability.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#260

Post by reqctomaniac »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #202
addicted wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if a developer bumps the price of their service that you rely on from $10/mo to $100/mo? At least if I purchase an app I can continue using it for a significant amount of time and look for an alternative. A subscription makes this much harder.

The article points out that changes in the subscription price will prompt a user to accept. If they take no action the subscription is cancelled automatically. So as a developer, changing your price could have a big attrition rate for current subscribers.

Yes, but if your customers have a lot of valuable data in your service, cancelling would make them loose that data. You can technically use this to extort money from your users. Not a viable business plan in the long run, for sure, but there are plenty of businesses that would try, I think.
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