The music industry has similar problems to the tech industry, especially game dev. There are a lot of people being exploited tremendously by big businesses. In the music industry it practically works out to a share cropping situation. But the exploited still often achieve more success and more wealth than the median for the developed world, and some of them achieve substantial fame as well. It's hard for the public to get worked up about that, especially considering the degree to which our society dehumanizes and objectifies the famous and the rich.
Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
251–260 of 313 posts
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?
Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…
That was true in 1964. It was no longer true around 1974. Because people like me bought those records ( ten years before I did this ) and learned how to play off of them.
That's part of why Tedesco was much less employed and Hal Blaine was working as a ... security guard(?).
Lumpy on the beginner guitar newsgroup (alt.guitar.beginner) wore out Ovations for a living at some time around then.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.
I was the Owner of the SMALL Label. My friend from college I worked at is a professional acoustic guitar musician. He makes 100% of his money playing guitar. He makes next to nothing from streaming, he says 1% from Pandora, Spotify and others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo9kGHYn_bI
Thanks for sharing that. Awesome!
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into…
I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everythin…
Well, I concede that HN is not the forum for in depth debate. I do think your image of who visits this forum is a bit narrow though. Two data points speaking against it, you, and me.
In any case if you'd like an in depth economic analysis of how the Internet actually did change everything that might challenge your view you might appreciate The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom by Yochai Bekler.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
They own the rights to everything . I believe the RIAA gets paid even if music is played/streamed that they don't own the rights to, until the musicians come claim the money. Movies and music showed how much power they have over the last two decades once Napster and later torrenting lit a fire under their asses. It's not just our government that is in their pockets. The TPP is a good example of them using the US' pos…
What do you mean they get paid for music that is played which they don't own the rights to?? How does it even work?
There are music performance licenses for venues, such as restaurants and bars. People will come up to you and threaten to sue if you don't pay for a blanket license. And they will do this even if you insist on playing completely original music.
Many of these license fees are done in bulk. The same with countries that automatically collect a tax on USB sticks and optical media. You pay a volume license, but it never filters down to the artists because it's not collected based on which songs are actually stored or played.
This is hardly all of it. There's a huge mass of corruption under the surface. Such as them not actually forwarding over license fees for song collections, or including songs they don't actually have the rights to include.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#256I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…
Steve Albini's essay The Problem With Music is essential reading. It explains in detail the catastrophically bad financial outlook for most musicians. http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17
Steve albinism gave an even better, more up to date keynote talk at the Face The Music event in 2014. It's probably the best, most important explanation of what's happened and what's going on I know of. Well well well worth the listen.
https://youtu.be/Lz_CPzuwSk4
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into…
I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everythin…
While I find your vitriol refreshing, I would suggest a change in your reading list. For those that want to examine the economics of IP vs. The Record Business, I would first read Fredric Dannen's Hit Men.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine the goal posts will for ever be moving when it comes to defining what art is, but ultimately optimizing for human emotional sentiment does not seem that difficult a problem. Art is mostly just a combination of past works optimized for the modern audience. Seems like the perfect problem for AI. We often judge a future AI in terms of how well it could replicate current things but the real question is what hap…
Generative music already is a tool / method in some artists' portfolio (particularly in ambient or experimental circles). However, it doesn't tend to be the only approach. AI could perhaps work soon for certain formulaic music (like say bubblegum pop) as well as some forms of synth music (I easily can see generative minimal techno for instance). I will say that people don't tend to like overly formulaic music though;…
Also I don't think people in general cares that much about the music as much as the idea of the identity behind the music. For AI music to be popular in a context where the an actual artist has to be emulated you either have to fool people into believing it's a real human behind it, or antopromoprohize the ai sufficiently to be promoted like a human.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself? Some highly regarded albums that use that exact process, all are five stars on Allmusic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Riot_Goin%27_On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Hate_Machine Another that legend has it was recording the same way, albeit under different circumst…
> Another that legend has it was recording the same way, albeit under different circumstances: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamese_Dream I read the wikipedia entry and it's quite a stretch :].
Yeah, I agree 100%, especially with respect to Wikipedia's description of it. It's just something I've always heard around, but I definitely don't have an even remotely reliable source. Here's what Allmusic says about it: "Corgan eventually played almost all the instruments himself (except for percussion)."
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into…
I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everythin…
I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum.
Stop it, now you're just whining! 'lelandbatey' is offering you excellent feedback. The number of people that voted you down (or up) is a tiny fraction of the membership.
Communication is hard, but you've got good things to say, and people that want to hear you. Probably it's true that no one here agrees with everything you believe, but they certainly don't all agree with each other either. Whether or not the person you are responding to directly understands (American?) intellectual property law, there are others that do, and other perspectives that are important. It's a more diverse community than you give it credit.
So you just keep on thinking that "The Internet has changed everything!"
No, it hasn't changed everything, but it's sure changed a lot of things, and music is one of those. While practically free and instantaneous delivery may not change drastically change the business of music, it certainly changes the process of discovery. While it's not quite as major as the first phonograph, I think it's likely to have comparable impact. For example, without the internet, I don't think I ever would have found this[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtX2HPBMcsQ. And now that I have, certainly my life will never be the same?
[1] Antti Paalanen - Meluta (We Wanna Make Some Noise)