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Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

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Re: Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

#251

Your iphone just got less secure - so don't use iphones anymore. It always amazes me when people get on their high horse and start complaining about something when the remedy is quite simple - don't use the iphone. Get an Android phone, or an Ubuntu phone, or a Blackphone or a Windows phone. There's plenty of other devices that haven't been cracked by the FBI. There's irony in the fact Apple resisted the FBI attempts…

I don't believe even for a second that Android devices are any more secure than iPhones. And I use an android phone. But let's be honest - with dozens of manufacturers there isn't a single one who dedicated the same amount of work to securing their devices or engineering things like the secure enclave in iPhones. I use a Sony phone but I'm sure Sony wouldn't have the guts to stand up to FBI, or that FBI would even ne…

Hi! do you have contact details/email I can reach you on?

Re: Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's plausible to see a scenario where Apple says "You know what? Fuck it, we're based in Ireland now." Maybe, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse. We're not at that stage right now. Right now we can turn the tables on the FBI and demand they contribute back to our own ability to secure ourselves. It's not too tough to describe the issue to the general public. The FBI would ordinarily help business…

> the FBI is refusing to cooperate with the general public who own iPhones. Which I think is a perfectly rational thing for the FBI to do in the absence of a law stating that they must do so. I don't think it's the best thing for democracy, but if I were a senior-level FBI official, I'm trying to give my organization as many tools as I can get to do their job. He's a man with a small, narrowly defined scope: investig…

The people are the most powerful part of the legislative process in a democracy. They, and you, may have forgotten that by not voting and attempting to justify the positions taken by public officials who are sworn to protect the constitution.

> Which I think is a perfectly rational thing for the FBI to do in the absence of a law stating that they must do so. I don't think it's the best thing for democracy, but...

I've seen a lot of this "understanding" in the news and online. It is not how democracy works. We have the power, not them. We can literally vote them out of their jobs.

Re: Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, while randomly flipping a coin, he reveals the car then you have a 0% chance of winning. If he doesn't reveal a car then you have a 2/3 chance of winning if you switch doors.

In this scenario, Monty's door choice and your door choice are completely independent actions. Because of this, you gain no new information from the door he reveals. In the classic version of this puzzle (where Monty always reveals a goat), you do gain information, because most of the time Monty's forced to choose the only other goat, and therefore avoid the car. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NotTheMontyHallProblem The swit…

When you originally pick a door - there are three. (We all agree on this). Because you are picking at random, and the prize is only behind one door, there is a 1/3 chance that you have picked the right door. (likewise, We can all agree on that.) Therefore, I think we can all agree that there is a 2/3 chance that the prize exists behind one of the other two doors.

Let us take your approach, and have Monty flip a coin, revealing ANY door at random.

If he flips your door, and you have the prize - You have a 100% chance of winning. If he flips your door, and you have the goat, 0% chance of winning. Those two scenarios are easy, and we can ignore them.

Likewise, if he flips the coin, and shows one of the other two doors, and they have the prize - then, once again - easy - 0% chance of winning. We can ignore these scenarios.

I think up to this point, we can agree on all of the above scenarios. (They are win/lose)

Where it gets complex, he flips a coin, selects one of the doors you aren't on, and reveals a goat.

Given that you had a 1/3 chance originally of winning, and a 2/3 chance of not winning, and given that Monty has now revealed that one of the other two doors (By chance) does not have the car, your 2/3 chance of not winning is still the same, but now it applies to only a single door - I.E. You have a 66% chance of winning by selecting that other door - and the fact that Monty selected that door by chance, is irrelevant.

Unfortunately, despite my (flawed) apparently logical argument - I'm completely wrong, and you are correct.

   from random import *
   def putPrizeInDoor():
       doors=[0,0,0]
       door_winner=randint(0,2)
       doors[door_winner]=1
       return doors

   trials=100000
   testCount=0
   win=lose=0
   for x in range(trials):
       doors=putPrizeInDoor()
       userSelects=randint(0,2)
       montyReveals=randint(0,2)
       if montyReveals==userSelects: # Monty reveals the door user is on
           pass
       else:
           if doors[montyReveals]==1: # Monty Revealed the prize.
               pass
           else: # this is where it's interesting - Monty reveals, at random, door not winning that user not on.
               revealedDoors=set([montyReveals,userSelects])
               newUserChoice=list(set([0,1,2])-revealedDoors)[0]
               testCount+=1
               if doors[newUserChoice]==1:
                   win+=1
               else:
                   lose+=1
        
            
   print ("Tested: {}  Wins: {}  Lost: {}  Percentage: {:.2f}".format(testCount,win,lose,win/testCount))
 

Tested: 44484 Wins: 22220 Lost: 22264 Percentage: 0.50

It's interesting that the deliberate selection by Monty of the goat, increases my chance from 33% to 66% if I switch, but the random selection by Monty of the goat, only increases my chance from 33% to 50% if I switch. I'm not really sure where the argument I made breaks down, but, empirically, it's clearly broken. I'll have to meditate on it a bit to see where I've gone awry.

Re: Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this scenario, Monty's door choice and your door choice are completely independent actions. Because of this, you gain no new information from the door he reveals. In the classic version of this puzzle (where Monty always reveals a goat), you do gain information, because most of the time Monty's forced to choose the only other goat, and therefore avoid the car. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NotTheMontyHallProblem The swit…

When you originally pick a door - there are three. (We all agree on this). Because you are picking at random, and the prize is only behind one door, there is a 1/3 chance that you have picked the right door. (likewise, We can all agree on that.) Therefore, I think we can all agree that there is a 2/3 chance that the prize exists behind one of the other two doors. Let us take your approach, and have Monty flip a coin,…

I must say this is one of the best comments I have seen on HN. I don't know if this helps you meditate on the game or not, but this is how I walk though the logic.

1/3 of the time you picked correct: 100% of those worlds he shows a goat. 1/3 of the time you picked wrong and he shows a goat. 1/3 of the time you picked wrong and he shows a car.

So your overall odds are 1/3 of winning if you don't change AND 1/3 of the time you don't get the chance to change.

Thus, your overall chances of winning in this case is 1/3. But, if he shows you a goat your odds are bumped to 1/3: 1/3 or 50/50.

Re: Your iPhone just got less secure. Blame the FBI

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this scenario, Monty's door choice and your door choice are completely independent actions. Because of this, you gain no new information from the door he reveals. In the classic version of this puzzle (where Monty always reveals a goat), you do gain information, because most of the time Monty's forced to choose the only other goat, and therefore avoid the car. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NotTheMontyHallProblem The swit…

When you originally pick a door - there are three. (We all agree on this). Because you are picking at random, and the prize is only behind one door, there is a 1/3 chance that you have picked the right door. (likewise, We can all agree on that.) Therefore, I think we can all agree that there is a 2/3 chance that the prize exists behind one of the other two doors. Let us take your approach, and have Monty flip a coin,…

Thanks for this comment! I thought this thread was dead.

I was searching for online simulators that let me tweak the rules of the game, but I could only find those that follow the original rules of the puzzle.

In thinking more about the Ignorant Monty scenario, I realized it's equivalent to having 3 contestants pick doors:

    Me
    Montgomery
    Switchy McSwitcherson
First I pick a door. Then Montgomery picks a door. Finally Switchy McSwitcherson gets the remaining door. Once all the picking is done, Montgomery opens his door first, and is saddened to see a goat. At this point, who is more likely to win? Me or Switchy McSwitcherson? Since we both had 1/3 initial odds, there's symmetry there, and one of us can't reap all the odds-boosting.

But the classic puzzle is more like a 2-contestant game, where I pick a door, the host selects a goat to reveal (and reveals it), then Switchy McSwitcherson is assigned the remaining door. In that scenario, I'm mad that they made me pick first before the host eliminated a door for Switchy. Switchy enjoys all the odds boosting.

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