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Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

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Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#251

Post by kerkeslager »

thomasahle wrote: post #224
panic wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the Myungwan Kim commentary around that same move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMqjGNqfU6I&t=1h33m . He had been looking with Hajin Lee at variations involving the move beforehand ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMqjGNqfU6I&t=1h28m1s ), so he immediately noticed that AlphaGo made a possible error in its response.

But Kim also jumped a bit backwards and forward for a few moves, until he finally decided it was a mistake. It didn't seem 100% clear.

Professionals are understandably hesitant to call AlphaGo's plays mistakes after the first few games, because AlphaGo had played a few moves that seemed like obvious mistakes (the eyestealing tesuji under the avalanche and the fifth line shoulder hit) but later proved to be very strong moves. Remember that when go is your career, your reputation is based partly on your ability to analyze games accurately, so calling a move a mistake and finding out later that it was strong would be a big embarrassment.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#252

Post by DannoHung »

nanofortnight wrote: post #203
scotty79 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Toward the end AlphaGo was making moves that even I (as a double-digit kyu player) could recognize as really bad. Maybe its training was focused on winning, not loosing narrowly. So as soon as it became obvious it can't win. It was just making silly moves because it was less researched scenario. Some people when they see they can't win they do silly moves just for fun.

They're not really silly moves, it's just that in order to get into a good state for AlphaGo, Lee Sedol would have to miss the obvious response to those moves.

If he had made a dumb move and AlphaGo capitalized on it we would be talking about how the AI goaded him into a sense of safety.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#254

Post by userbinator »

mizzao wrote: post #194

Another way to look at this is just how efficient the human brain is for the same amount of computation. On one hand, we have racks of servers (1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs) [1] using megawatts (gigawatts?) of power, and on the other hand we have a person eating food and using about 100W of power (when physically at rest), of which about 20W is used by the brain. [1] http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/216…

We can estimate the power consumption: 1920 CPUs as in cores, or physical packages? If the latter they are ~100W each, so that's 192kW; if it's the former, depending on how many cores per package, a fraction of that. The GPUs are likely to be counting physical packages (and not cores, which is much more) and they draw 300-400W each, for a total of ~300kW. Add a bit of overhead and I'd say 500kW (half a megawatt) is a good rough estimate.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#255

Post by gcr »

denim_chicken wrote: post #190
mikeyouse wrote: post #11

Relevant tweets from Demis; Lee Sedol is playing brilliantly! #AlphaGo thought it was doing well, but got confused on move 87. We are in trouble now... Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87 When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 Lee Sedol wins game 4!!! Congratulations! H…

It feels really weird to see someone being showered with congratulations for beating a computer program. What exactly is he being congratulated for? For probably triggering and then capitalizing on a bug in AlphaGo's AI? For showing that human resolve, perseverance and a "fighting spirit" can trump a flawed AI, at least until the AI gets fixed? For giving DeepMind extremely valuable test data that will only accelerat…

Lee Sedol will forever be known as the first human to defeat AlphaGo in Game 4, and potentially the last one too.

That's quite an accomplishment.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#257

Post by chillydawg »

leereeves wrote: post #136
mikeyouse wrote: post #11

Relevant tweets from Demis; Lee Sedol is playing brilliantly! #AlphaGo thought it was doing well, but got confused on move 87. We are in trouble now... Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87 When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 Lee Sedol wins game 4!!! Congratulations! H…

Any chance of explaining the mistake on move 79 to someone who's only played a few casual games of Go?

AlphaGo enlarged a group that was at risk of atari (loss to opponent) instead of correctly trying to divert attention to elsewhere on the board or starting a new fight or simply writing it off. If basically added stones to a group that was almost certainly dead and allowed the opponent to punish it heavily, thus giving away more stones than it had to.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#258

Post by Drdrdrq »

mizzao wrote: post #194

Another way to look at this is just how efficient the human brain is for the same amount of computation. On one hand, we have racks of servers (1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs) [1] using megawatts (gigawatts?) of power, and on the other hand we have a person eating food and using about 100W of power (when physically at rest), of which about 20W is used by the brain. [1] http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/216…

Sure, but AlphaGo will probably evolve much faster. In a few years it will run on much smaller devices, as happened to chess programs.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#259

Post by avar »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #232
zouhair wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How frigging smart Sedol is?

Kind of cool to know you're as smart as algorithms that require 1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs

They've said it doesn't require that, AlphaGo running on a single machine beats the cluster they're using 25% of the time.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#260

Post by sltkr »

avar wrote: post #259
Tempest1981 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of cool to know you're as smart as algorithms that require 1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs

They've said it doesn't require that, AlphaGo running on a single machine beats the cluster they're using 25% of the time.

So based on current data, Lee Sedol is exactly as good AlphaGo running on a single machine.
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