A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared • Hacker News Board

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#241

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

api_or_ipa wrote: post #179

littletimmy wrote: post #169

The most repulsive thing to read here is the reaction of some of the customers. “What’s their incentive to hustle if you pay them so much?” Really? Do you ask that same question when a CEO gets millions of dollar in bonus? Nah, the CEOs simply "deserve" it. The employees though, they must hustle. Roughly transposed to the 17th century, that statement reads "What's the incentive for this n * to pick more cotton if he…

> How about observing how well they perform before bringing in your Ayn Rand propaganda. While I agree with the rest of your post, your portrayal of Ms. Rand's work is woefully inaccurate. No where do I recall she wrote of demeaning blacks, suppressing wages and preventing the equal participation of all capable people in a common market. Rand was very clear that racism and discrimination hindered the free market by p…

Nobody in this thread actually cares what Ayn Rand said or didn't say. The thread's not about her.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#242

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 4:17 PM UTC

Trombone12 wrote: post #219

littletimmy wrote: post #169

The most repulsive thing to read here is the reaction of some of the customers. “What’s their incentive to hustle if you pay them so much?” Really? Do you ask that same question when a CEO gets millions of dollar in bonus? Nah, the CEOs simply "deserve" it. The employees though, they must hustle. Roughly transposed to the 17th century, that statement reads "What's the incentive for this n * to pick more cotton if he…

To me that's just a weird reaction; isn't their wage the incentive they have to work? Is that no longer how it works in the USA?

No, the actual incentive to work is that you get homeless, sick, and hungry if you don't. This is in contrast to other countries, where the unemployed (especially the long-term unemployed) receive social support. In the USA, people on parental leave from white-collar, salaried jobs don't even necessarily get paid -- to avoid incentivizing pregnancy, you see.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#243

Post by indymike » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

alexqgb wrote: post #202

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #200

> Two of Mr. Price’s most valued employees quit, spurred in part by their view that it was unfair to double the pay of some new hires while the longest-serving staff members got small or no raises. Man, that must have been awkward to explain to anyone who stopped by while you were cleaning out your desk. "Yeah, I'm quitting because you don't deserve more money, peasant. It was really nice working with you, though!"

"I mean, Jesus Christ! If there are a bunch of really happy and super loyal people working here and that does great things for the company then maybe it'll turn out that I'm not as important as I think I am and then what?! " "Uh, you'll try not to let the door hit you on the way out?"

Actually, about that Jesus Christ guy, there is a parable about this exact situation. Short version: laborers hired in the afternoon were paid the same as those hired in the morning. Morning hired complained. Farm owner: it's my money, you were paid as agreed. Nice day, have one.

Interesting that people have struggled with this concept for at least 2000 years...

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#244

Post by kelukelugames » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #226

noir_lord wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this at one job, I was a developer and earnt considerably more (though market rate) than the office manager. She had a vendetta against me from day one with constant jibes about pay and such as prior to me starting she'd earnt the most out of the staff there. It progressed into her making a landgrab (decided that I had to clear all days off and holidays through her etc) which I countered by speaking to my boss…

Since I can't edit and forgot to say, should my company ever grow to the size where an office manager role is needed it will not be called Office Manager since you give some people the word Manager anywhere in their job title and they start planning to invade Poland. Not sure what I would call it, Office Support Specialist or something suitably ambiguous I guess, the role is largely one of keeping the lights on, maki…

Power trips scare me. I wonder I'd be just as bad.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#245

Post by ArkyBeagle » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 5:34 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #229

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just lack the part of my imagination that makes me care what anybody else makes. So far as I am concerned, it's simply not important. I'd love to talk to somebody overpaid by three orders of magnitude but only to find out how it happened, in a "The Man Who Would Be King" sort of way. The world is far too arbitrary and random for anything like that to have too much meaning. Indeed, someone in the office next to me i…

What other people make comes out of the limited budget for all employees. If you deliver twice the value, it is only fair that you should receive twice the pay.

There's nearly never a good system of measurement to determine that. The more elaborate the system, probably the less trustworthy it is. And people game them.

Then they try to gain a position to stop change because that would threaten their position. Once the firm reaches total hidebound status, it's merely a matter of time.

I mean - "second prize is a set of steak knives"....

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#246

Post by rasz_pl » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #230

rasz_pl wrote: post #227

And this is why you (USians) cant have nice things like universal and _free_ healthcare/education. You were raised to believe you deserve more than your peers, its kind of sick.

If they weren't being paid the same before this stunt, they weren't peers.

How is the mud on your pig farm Napoleon?

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#247

Post by flippinburgers » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

logingone wrote: post #233

DannoHung wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahahah fuck off "They (Native Americans) didn't have any rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using. What was it that they were fighting for, when they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their 'right' to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, but just keep…

I think you, and those below, have misunderstood this quote, in the usual knee-jerk liberal ("fuck off") fascist manner. She is complaining about the lack of productive use of the land. She is saying that the native Americans didn't have rights to keep the land from being used productively. She is saying that they are maintaining a way life that is not progressing - she is not saying they should be excluded from prog…

Oh I know how to add to this productive conversation! We should totally get rid of all national parks and protected lands of any kind because, you know, those lands aren't being used productively. Your comment is hilariously cruel and, I would say, borderline sociopathic.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#248

Post by logingone » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

flippinburgers wrote: post #247

logingone wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you, and those below, have misunderstood this quote, in the usual knee-jerk liberal ("fuck off") fascist manner. She is complaining about the lack of productive use of the land. She is saying that the native Americans didn't have rights to keep the land from being used productively. She is saying that they are maintaining a way life that is not progressing - she is not saying they should be excluded from prog…

Oh I know how to add to this productive conversation! We should totally get rid of all national parks and protected lands of any kind because, you know, those lands aren't being used productively. Your comment is hilariously cruel and, I would say, borderline sociopathic.

I didn't comment on what I thought of it. I clarified what she thought of it. See, now you've done it. You guys need to slow down.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#249

Post by cheald » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 7:16 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #187

Spooky23 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know how valuable you are? Or how much more valuable you are than the receptionist. My assistant is ridiculously valuable. She's a multiplier for the team. Her presence means invoices get paid, visitor logistics are taken care of, contracts get renewed, the office is in order. I don't control her pay, but every hour she is present easily saves me a quarter hour, and probably saves my direct reports a simil…

Because in most cases he could learn to do her job in a few weeks, whereas it would take her years to learn his, if at all. Look what website you're on - people here write software to literally eliminate jobs in many cases, and to do so you have to understand that job even better than the person who does it, and then some. And this doesn't just apply to "menial" jobs - by the time a software developer is done impleme…

To elaborate a bit on this, the term economists like to use for this is "alternative choices". The minimum price of the assistant is somewhere around how much it would cost to hire and train someone to replace her - that is, her minimum price is set by the price of the alternative choices that the employer has. After all, it is irrational to hire an assistant at $2X who will produce Y output when you could hire an assistant at $X who will produce Y output.

On the other end of the scale, the maximum price is value of her productive output to the company - it is irrational to pay her more than she can generate.

Negotiation is the skill of convincing your employer that you're harder (ie, more expensive) to replace, thus propelling your pay closer to that maximum.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#250

Post by cheald » Sat, Aug 01, 2015, 7:40 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #191

wmboy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting and even nonsensical. He's an entrepreneur, owns a for-profit business and is choosing to compensate how he wants to. It's actually the definition of how capitalism can improve quality of life for everyone, is it not?

Not really, because he's pushing towards a completely arbitrary minimum $70k salary for everyone. That's certainly his right as the business owner, and that sentiment shared more widely might be better for society, but there's nothing particularly "capitalistic" about it.

It's absolutely capitalistic, but there are many people who would call it economically inefficient or irrational. After all, a capitalist can choose to freely exchange his capital for higher-priced goods of the same quality as lower-priced goods instead of those lower-priced goods.