Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're exchanging salary for equity you have to look at taking a job at a startup like an investment decision. I don't know what the broader startup stats are now, but 1 in 6 sounds about average. It means you should negotiate down vesting periods and try and spend a few years at each startup before figuring out if it will succeed or not. My anecdotal opinion is that more startups are cashing out for at least some…
> On another note - it would be pretty cool if someone did the equivalent of an index fund but for employee options. Get together with 5-6 of your friends at different startups and exchange options with each other to hedge the risk. This is a pretty cool idea, but you'll have to find a lot of friends for it to work. Chances are, your 5-6 friends' options will also end up worthless. Then again, if we're talking about…
Hard-won lessons about money and investing
241–250 of 264 posts
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#242"Google worked out a deal with “full service” broker to give us free accounts" That is actually really interesting. How much did this broker have to pay to get this box full of highly lucrative leads - access to a large set of newly wealthy individuals, many of which don't have experience with managing large amounts of money. A bunch of people who may be experts of technology, but probably are not experts on finance.…
It also seems at odds with what was said in this article, linked to here on HN a couple of weeks back: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/the-best-inv...
Google did a fantastic job of educating employees before the IPO. They brought in a ton of smart people to bring us up to speed, emphasize the need to diversify and minimize risk, etc. Honestly, I couldn't ask for a company to do a better job of educating us.
In addition, they arranged to give us default accounts with a broker so that we could sell our shares. My decision to park some money in commercial paper was strictly my own, and I should have done more research on it first.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Long term capital gains is 15% not 50+%. Also, California bonds are far from a risk free investment which is why they pay more than 1%. Remember a 5+ year bond can have negative real returns if inflation increases. EX: People have paid 50 k for a 30 year T bill, waited 5 years and sold that for less than 50k. The important thing to remember in such situations is just because you did not sell the bond does not mean yo…
Muni bond interest is interest dividend income; has nothing to do with capital gains or AMT or whatever else you Googled. I lived in California and received 1099-DIV -- have you? For a Googler making a big salary, that's 39.6% Federal plus 11% California state. Matt didn't say this in his post, you obviously don't know what you're talking about in your comment, and we've once again proven why giving investment advice…
You've mentioned my limited experience but other than Schwab vs. Vanguard for donor-advised funds, what would you do differently? Of course people have to do their own research, but limited experience is no reason not to share information and ideas.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#244The tone is far too authoritative given the narrow experience of the author. Reading an Googler's quickie blogpost investment guide isn't the path to financial independence. It's barely the bot-filled advice of /r/personalfinance with a better PageRank. Microsoft pushed giving and 30 years later there are still people blindly pumping money into United Way. (Maybe not the best charity!) Google seems to have pushed the…
I agree. One of the most cringe-worthy parts of this post is the author's multiple references to bond funds. Owning bond funds is not the same thing as owning bonds and every bond investor should know the difference. Bond prices have an inverse relationship with interest rates. Bond prices fall when interest rates rise. When you own individual bonds, you cannot lose your principal if you hold to maturity unless the i…
The interest rate environment at this moment is interesting with QE coming to an end, but I'm trying to give advice that will work well long-term.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. One of the most cringe-worthy parts of this post is the author's multiple references to bond funds. Owning bond funds is not the same thing as owning bonds and every bond investor should know the difference. Bond prices have an inverse relationship with interest rates. Bond prices fall when interest rates rise. When you own individual bonds, you cannot lose your principal if you hold to maturity unless the i…
7Figures2Commas, of course I know the difference between a single bond vs. a bond index fund. I clipped coupons off a bond my grandfather gave me as a kid. The interest rate environment at this moment is interesting with QE coming to an end, but I'm trying to give advice that will work well long-term.
> I’d also recommend investing in a bond index fund. Bonds tend to do well when stocks do poorly, and vice versa, so investing in both will tend to reduce your risk.
Notwithstanding the fact that "bonds tend to do well when stocks do poorly" is a vast oversimplifcation[1], "I’d also recommend investing in a bond index fund" is far too general a statement to be considered actionable advice.
This is not actionable advice either:
> But there is a simple trick to minimize your taxes: buy municipal bonds for the state where you live. For example, Vanguard offers municipal bond funds for many states, including a bond fund for California.
Vanguard offers multiple bond funds for California (there's an intermediate-term and long-term). Which one are you referring to, and why?
If you followed the title of your post ("Nine hard-won lessons about money and investing") and didn't package your own lessons as "advice" (your words, not mine) for everyone else, I think folks would have responded less critically to it. Instead, you ironically dissed financial advisors while providing "advice" far less detailed and actionable than one could expect from even the most mediocre or inexperienced of financial advisors.
[1] https://media.pimco.com/Documents/PIMCO_Quantitative_Researc...
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Muni bond interest is interest dividend income; has nothing to do with capital gains or AMT or whatever else you Googled. I lived in California and received 1099-DIV -- have you? For a Googler making a big salary, that's 39.6% Federal plus 11% California state. Matt didn't say this in his post, you obviously don't know what you're talking about in your comment, and we've once again proven why giving investment advice…
tacos, I tried to point people to Scott Adams' financial advice for people in regular situations. People who have done well in a startup are often in California, so I wanted to make sure that I mentioned the tax advantages of municipal bonds. You've mentioned my limited experience but other than Schwab vs. Vanguard for donor-advised funds, what would you do differently? Of course people have to do their own research,…
I'm somewhat bedazzled by Reddit's /r/personalfinance group. It's a weird mix of debt support group, FICO score obsessive-compulsives, bots posting FAQ entries, and what appears to be 14 year olds who watch that guy who yells on the finance channel instead of doing their algebra homework repeating the same boilerplate advice over and over regardless of what the panicked, desperate OP declares is his unique financial situation and needs.
Between that, pg's insane essay yesterday on "being mean", and a discussion with a knucklehead here last week who didn't understand dilution or liquidity, your post caught me at an odd time.
My first problem with your post is that it lacks context. It goes from "gee shucks here's some dumb shit I did" to vague recommendations straight out of elementary school economics to "choose a credit union -- but not the one I chose" to suddenly talking about donor-assisted charity funds and maintaining your own mini-index fund by purchasing 75 stocks. You also use the phrase "sunshine tax" referring to weather just to make sure it's a big ol' swirl of mixed metaphors.
As someone who's only previously read your stuff when you're outlining guidelines (and teasing vague hints) of how not to piss off Googlebot, it's a little weird.
It's the same problem /r/personalfinance faces. It's not clear how old you are, where you live, what your marital/child situation is, what your health is, what your parent's health is, what your values are, or just how fucking rich you are. I don't blame you for not saying it and I don't want to know. But without that, you're a talking head spouting finance with no track record and no background, and you're saying nothing that I haven't heard from that blonde lady with the fancy haircut or the Reddit finance bot.
It's the blogger's curse, one I find myself asking whenever I start clicking around the web: why did you write this post, who the hell are you, and why should I take you seriously?
You lost your shirt on Cisco, you nearly lost it all with unsecured notes, and now you're giving me advice about securities? Um, ok. Paul Graham's doing his Dale-Carnegie-On-A-Bumper-Sticker schtick, I guess why not?
Context aside, some specifics relating to your article:
1. You are probably a bad stock picker
Should read "I am a bad stock picker." Overlaps with "just buy an index." Also, for support you link to an article written by someone who was banned for life from the securities industry.
2. No one cares about your money as much as you do
No one cares about your health as much as you do either. That doesn't mean you shouldn't visit a doctor when there's a lump in your ballsack. The world isn't melting and there are trustworthy financial organizations. Though I'd sure love to know why Google Finance sucks so hard. Financial news is a bot-filled hellhole, and given its highly keyworded nature with ticker symbols included, Google still insists on showing me blurbs from an Oregon utility (Portland General electric company) instead of GE, the 9th largest corporation on the planet. Nice scripts, dude. Reminds me of the time Google Translate autodetected Gesundheit as Spanish.
3. Wall Street is not your friend
This is a "hard won" lesson for you? How exactly were you maimed by the lack of regulation on Wall Street? You weren't even holding securities and you still made out okay. Also... capitalism? Zero sum? This is news? Sounds like rhetoric to me.
4. Think about working for equity vs. salary
Series A pinch, plenty of signs of a bubble ready to burst, interest rates ready to rise and suck the dumb money out of the Valley, energy prices in turmoil, housing still weak, and you're suggesting people dive into a startup in lieu of salary ("versus") in December, 2014 in order to retire? Let's meet back in 5 years and see how that worked out, deal?
5. Prefer index funds
Fascinating. 50/50 stock/bond split you say? And a plug for Vanguard LifeStrategy? Did you really just say "diversify but watch out for fees"in 339 words and slip a brand in? What is this, BuzzFeed? And... "Prefer"? Why? Versus what? And did you just link to that shitty site run by the guy banned for life from the securities industry again? Yes, yes you did.
6. Prefer credit unions over banks
"Wall Street is like [sic] carnival sideshow designed to separate you from your money." Really, dude? Half the credit unions in the US have less than $20 million in assets. Call me weird but I'd like my bank to be worth more money than I am. Deposit a couple six figure checks and you'll learn fast where service comes from at even the shittiest Bank of America branch. They'll give you more than lollipops. And, bonus: they can afford to make an Android app. Credit unions are great, except when they suck. Check yours, read the fine print, then consider that getting direct deposit to the bank that has ATMs everywhere might work out just the same on fees and better interest rates on savings to boot. And with an Android app!
7. Prefer Vanguard over almost anyone else
"I consider them one of the only companies on your side in the financial world." What an odd endorsement. Have you exhaustively researched the other discount brokers and their services? E-trade for individual 401ks? Schwab for low-deposit requirements across the board, extensive checking/banking options (varies by state)? Chase/Wells Fargo for HSAs? A not insane recommendation would be "use Vanguard as a baseline, they're tough to beat." And maybe keep your financial industry ethical intuition to yourself?
8. You probably don’t need a “assets under management” financial advisor
Another dubious section but CLEARLY should refer to the need for a tax advisor and/or estate planner. Two posts upthread I'm arguing with a guy who doesn't know how interest is taxed. Nobody gets this shit right and .25-.5% for a few years (especially when you're starting out) might be worth it. As for your well-earned phobia about outsiders touching your money, perhaps we could compromise? Trust but verify, perhaps? And maybe "don't get your advice on the internet" -- oops, isn't that pretty much what Scott Adams says in your first paragraph?
9. Consider municipal bonds
No discussion of risk. No discussion of how to compute effective tax rate.
--
I realize this is harsh but I just don't understand why you woke up with a belly full of turkey and decided to become Suze Ortman. If you wanted to provide anecdotes and share mistakes you made, go for it. But when you turned the corner into being "an authority" on such a huge, complex beast that affects everyone in incredibly subtle, different ways -- you lost me.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because Buffett is counting on an index fund when he dies. That's completely irrelevant. Nobody is going to get Buffet rich from index funds. After Buffet dies he won't be around to decide what to invest the money in so he picked index funds because they're a good conservative decision that will outperform most investors. That does NOT mean that you can't do much, much better than that by, like Dave said, becoming…
Investing 90% of a portfolio in a large-cap US index fund and 10% in short-term treasuries is not considered a "conservative" asset allocation. It's missing a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of portfolio diversification. For example: The suggested portfolio isn't diversified with an International stock market fund. The S&P fund isn't exposed to small-cap and mid-caps, like Vanguard's Total Stock fund. The bond comp…
Edit: Conservative is just a relative word. Sure index funds aren't conservative relative to the the things you listed, but they are to many many other strategies that Buffet (for example) used to get as rich as he is.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
> yes but it also depends how you consider in your calculation the costs of telecommuting (costs of travelling, time lost etc..) Since it seems that English isn't your first language, I thought I'd point out that "telecommuting" means you work from home, and "commuting" means that you travel a long distance to get to work. So, there are no costs or time lost when telecommuting, because you don't have to go anywhere.…
you are right I'm not native English speaker so thanks for spotting that, I've always used "remote working" or "teleworking" for describing that, but not telecommuting (maybe because commuting means "travelling to work" and tele means "over a distance", so the compound doesn't make too much sense for me, at least if you don't put a negation somewhere :D)
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is oft-cited difference between bonds and bond funds is a red herring when it comes to determining the proper investment of the two. The reason a single bond keeps you from losing your principal is because it has a declining duration, whereas bond funds generally have a fixed duration (more or less) since maturing bonds in the portfolio are usually reinvested into bonds of the same time to maturity. You can simu…
> You can simulate the behavior of a single bond by rolling your investments into shorter and shorter duration bond funds over time. As I noted, there are ways to address interest rate risk with bond funds, but you're ignoring the most important question in the context of this discussion: how many retail investors who put money into bond funds actually know about laddering strategies? > But if a bond's price has decl…
Also, the point is not to hedge 'interest rate risk' by just buying shorter duration funds, full stop. Interest rates do not pose a risk unless you had a set date to liquidate your investment. If you are not planning on liquidating your bonds then interest rates pose no risk, they just affect the growth of the income stream.
The point is, if you are concerned about getting your principal returned, decide upon how many years down the road you need it back. That is your initial duration. To maximize your return under that constraint, buy a fund at that duration. Then yearly rebalance with other shorter duration funds (while reinvesting coupons properly) to taper the net duration down over the course of the investment period. There you go, you've just simulated a single bond but now are no longer exposed to default risk.
Again: perpetuating the idea that 'getting your principal back' is a feature only found if you buy individual bonds directly is untrue and can result in terrible investment decisions. It presents a false dilemma between a 'secure principal' and diversification. Forgoing diversification in bonds is one of the most dangerous things you can do. More than any other asset class, bonds benefit immeasurably from diversification (and probably also active management) since default risk is the major risk the investor faces.
Re: Hard-won lessons about money and investing
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You can simulate the behavior of a single bond by rolling your investments into shorter and shorter duration bond funds over time. As I noted, there are ways to address interest rate risk with bond funds, but you're ignoring the most important question in the context of this discussion: how many retail investors who put money into bond funds actually know about laddering strategies? > But if a bond's price has decl…
I don't think you read the article I linked. Reducing the effective duration on the bond fund portion of your portfolio boils down to the same thing you'd do in any healthy portfolio: yearly rebalancing. Also, the point is not to hedge 'interest rate risk' by just buying shorter duration funds, full stop. Interest rates do not pose a risk unless you had a set date to liquidate your investment. If you are not planning…
To highlight this, I used the author's lack of distinction between bonds and bond funds and the most simple difference between how they function as employed by your average retail investor. You're obviously free to go off on a wild tangent detailing in more depth the way that bond funds can be used, but ironically you're only proving my original point: this is not nearly as simple as the OP's advice ("buy a bond fund!") and requires an investment of time and effort that exceeds what the vast majority of people are willing to put in.