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Angular 2 Core

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Re: Angular 2 Core

#241

Post by jacquesm »

pcwalton wrote: post #143
skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

If popularity is the only metric that counts, then logically you should also dismiss anything other than PHP, MySQL, and Apache for the server side out of hand.

I could live with that. That said, they are obviously not the best for every application but swapping out MySQL for the next up contender (Postgres) and Apache with Nginx and PHP with Ruby or python would not change the picture dramatically. Switching to Java+Tomcat or a javascript framework on the serverside would change the picture in a dramatic way.

Popularity is not the most useful measure but it is a useful metric to determine the viability of a framework and it also gives an idea about how open a team is to outside contributions which is a huge factor in eventual success. (See: Linux vs Minix).

I'm not a fan of Javascript either on the clientside or on the serverside but I agree with the GGP that they seem to get community right and even if every other decision they make is wrong in the long turn that may make them the equivalent of PHP in their domain.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#242

Post by jacquesm »

mgkimsal wrote: post #67
kuni-toko-tachi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey pal, drop the chip on your shoulder. Just because AngularJS has wide adoption doesn't change the fact that it is an extremely poorly designed framework. I also refuse to consider AngularJS jobs. Many developers have had to suffer through bad frameworks like GWT because of industry trends. Those bruises are not badges of honor. ReactJS is a framework that is clearly better designed. Why waste time learning and suf…

... because jobs? I'm in agreement with your point, but... if 'the market' wants angular... 'the market' is going to have a hell of a time dealing with a mess in a couple of years when many of the decision makers that mandated angular move on to something else and leave piles of mess behind for someone else to clean up.

> when many of the decision makers that mandated angular move on to something else and leave piles of mess behind for someone else to clean up.

That's already happening. Two contacts came up in the last two weeks with Angular projects gone off the rails (pun intended).

Re: Angular 2 Core

#243

Post by WorldWideWayne »

pedalpete wrote: post #194
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Knockout.js and it's wonderful. Way better than Angular, which is too opinionated for me. I can read the entire source code and understand it.

I used knockout in a previous project, and it was really good, but (going from memory of using knockout), Angular has quite a bit with respect to managing your entire app and modularizing it. Knockout seems more like react to me, and I suspect it just didn't get as much support because it was from Microsoft.

Knockout didn't come from Microsoft, it's not a Microsoft product, but it did come from a Microsoft employee. I suppose for the Silicon Valley crowd that's enough of a "black mark" to avoid it. Meh. I don't care if tons of people use it because it's just one simple piece of the puzzle (that I can maintain myself if needed). Also Knockout added a feature called "Components" to version 3.2 which enables modularization similar to Angular.

That Angular wants to manage the whole app is exactly why I probably won't use it for my own projects. I don't want to build "Angular apps" I want to build web apps. Angular seems unstable too, with regards to backward compatibility - barely supporting IE8 in 1.2, dropping it in 1.3 and then introducing all sorts of major breaking changes in 2.0 - no, this kit is not for people like me who want stability. Meanwhile, even Knockout's newest features work all the way back to IE6.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#244

Post by jmcqk6 »

DCoder wrote: post #221
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Knockout.js and it's wonderful. Way better than Angular, which is too opinionated for me. I can read the entire source code and understand it.

I'm a fan of Knockout too, but it only handles part of Angular's functionality. It doesn't do routing, DI, resources... and you have to build all that from other libraries.

There is a library called "Durandal" that is built on top of knockout, and pulls in routing, DI, etc. : http://durandaljs.com/

Unfortunately, the developer has joined the Angular team and has basically said the next version of durandal is angular.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#245

Post by lowboy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #231
spion wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not even ES6, its some weird abomination (AtScript) on top of ES6. We definitely wont be switching to Angular 2.0. Hello React.

I like how a lot of people see React as a full-on alternative to AngularJS. It's not, React is just for the view (think jQuery), you'll need other components or a lot of manual work to build a full application with React.

> React is just for the view (think jQuery)

That is comparing apples to oranges. I agree that React is a view layer, but jQuery is most definitely not. The only thing they have in common is that they (usually) act on the DOM in some way.

Agreed on your point about needing other components/architecture to use React.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#246

Post by toblender »

Is this for real? Is this the official direction for AngularJS 2?

Seems like a very big leap considering people are just getting use to the way AngularJS 1 works ($scopes etc).

Re: Angular 2 Core

#247

Post by PeterisP »

purpletoned wrote: post #33
bsaul wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what in react would replace all the other angularjs part not related to directives. How does react deal with routing, web service querying, unit testing, etc... It seems to me that the integrated approach of angular isn't answered by react.

There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there that offer the things you want. In most cases, they are more featureful and more stable than Angular's implementations. Router - Backbone's router, page.js etc Web service querying - simple jquery ajax calls or you could use breeze.js, pouchdb etc Unit testing - React has one built in, but you could use others too.

Having tons of libraries and multiple alternatives with unclear criteria for choosing A over B - that's a problem, not an advantage.

It creates unneeded wasted work in evaluating and comparing the alternatives; it makes maintenance harder and slower as people moving between projects have to get used to different components and styles every time, etc. Opinionated frameworks have a valid engineering reason for being and staying opinionated.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#248

Post by kyllo »

coldtea wrote: post #234
nilliams wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just wrote as a code example is Dependency Injection, it's just manual dependency injection as opposed to using an IOC container or any of the mechanisms Angular provides. I am very much in favour of the approach you posted. That's exactly how I write my code (I don't currently use Angular), but yep ... that's DI. As James Shore said 'Dependency Injection is a 25-dollar term for a 5-cent concept'. [1]. What…

> When I realized it was "passing stuff in" I wanted to shout, I have done that for years! Well, it's the "automatic" part that is important, not just the DI.

So the setter gets called automatically, but now you have to store the object names as strings or in an XML file. How is that better?

Re: Angular 2 Core

#249

Post by zghst »

Bahamut wrote: post #213
zghst wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many unknowns is way too broad of a reason when it comes to JS. JS is already the language of unknowns. It really depends on the framework, timing of things, people behind it. Angular is by Google, but also Google is pushing Web Components at the same time, which can integrate with Angular 2, but it challenges it as well. Also with Angular 2's goals being known for a long time, anyone could tell that ES6 would be…

Google does use Angular on many sites in production - the number is somewhere over 120 according to their metrics last I heard. They even use it for static pages - I noticed that the older Google Nexus pages were done in Angular. They prominently tout using Angular for DoubleClick, among other sites. It is also used widely internally. Angular is also used by a formidable set of companies in production - Microsoft, Go…

Ah corrected, thanks!

Re: Angular 2 Core

#250

Post by zghst »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #231
spion wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not even ES6, its some weird abomination (AtScript) on top of ES6. We definitely wont be switching to Angular 2.0. Hello React.

I like how a lot of people see React as a full-on alternative to AngularJS. It's not, React is just for the view (think jQuery), you'll need other components or a lot of manual work to build a full application with React.

React's V and Angular's V aren't entirely compatible, in fact it's be nasty to use them together. Sure it's not a full alternative, but I believe when people are saying React, they are inferring that they will be using Flux with React (Or Backbone, Knockout, etc).

React can be much more than just a view. Even before integrating Flux or a lightweight library, React can be powerful.

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