Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 317 posts

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#241

Post by vacri »

wonderzombie wrote: post #231
vacri wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless. And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence. Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then writ…

Sorry, but this is part of a pattern. You may feel OK with treating this as an isolated incident, but it's not. It deserves to be lumped into a category of common responses to stuff like this: victim blaming and derailing. It does approximately nothing to prevent a situation like this from happening. It puts the onus on a woman to deal with other people's utterly unacceptable behavior. It erases the responsibility no…

How many more caveats do I need? I even specified that the concept was up for debate and that it wasn't the victim's responsibility to do anything.

everyone else in the room with her Unless everyone else in the room was attending to the interaction of her and that one guy, this is hyperbole and doesn't help. If I'm in a conversation on one side of the room, do you really expect me to run over and forbid someone putting their hand on someone else's leg, despite not being aware of their previous conversation?

Anyway, if you want to talk about derailing, how about we talk about how this stupid large thread is focusing almost entirely on the preamble of the essay, and not the core theme that women aren't treated as being intellectually capable by the group? A large thread that is inflamed by throwing abuse around? How does this help the author resolve her article's thematic problem, being that her mind isn't respected?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#242

Post by pstack »

hbags wrote: post #237
pstack wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hbags, you are full of shit. Merritt said the behavior was unacceptable and the way to fix it is to address it when it occurs. Followed by the comment: --- "Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree with you isn't going to make nearly as much of a difference as taking care of issues promptly". --- Then said that a story…

You owe Merritt an apology No way. Meritt clearly attempted to shame her for writing about something that, for whatever reason, she didn't confront immediately. He's a censor. He's shaming her for protesting outside his designated free-speech zone. Fuck him.

Repeating your accusations doesn't make them true.

Knock your vile rhetoric and bullying off for five seconds and quote, for all of us, the specific sentence or more from Merritt's comment where he shamed the author, implied or supported censoring her, or said that she should not be able to post about her experience.

It is a simple request. I'm not asking you to irrefutably prove your ability to bend spoons with your mind. Merritt's comment was quite short. Just copy and paste the precise part of his or her message where what you keep attacking them for is actually stated or even implied.

Don't worry, we'll all wait. Go ahead.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#243

Post by vacri »

dragonwriter wrote: post #238
vacri wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he never said or even intimated "don't write about it". He said that writing this article this way would only be read by people who already agree. He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire, but there is nothing in what he said that meant "don't write at all". That's your projection. He said "if you do A, it won't be as effective…

> He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire He didn't say that being proactive at the time would spread like wildfire, he said that being proactive at the time and writing about that experience afterward would.

Yep, that's what I meant. And to be specific, I don't think if the article was "I asserted myself with the groper and he withdrew" would spread like wildfire. It wouldn't reach a particularly different audience to this one, methinks.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#244

Post by dragonwriter »

DorintheFlora wrote: post #240
dragonwriter wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He said it would be more effective to be proactive at the time. I disagree with him about such a thing spreading like wildfire He didn't say that being proactive at the time would spread like wildfire, he said that being proactive at the time and writing about that experience afterward would.

Would it? I personally doubt that. Do you have an example of something like that working? Or is that just speculation?

> Would it?

I think it would draw more attention and useful discussion from people interested in doing more than emoting sympathy, complaining about discussions of women's negative experiences, or discussing abstractly whether addressing the situation in the moment would be more productive.

Whether it would actually spread any more is another question, and one on which I don't have a strong feeling about.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#245

Post by wonderzombie »

mercer wrote: post #71

This sounds absolutely horrible, but it raises a questions. I'm a guy, and I tend to be quite aware of things happening around me. If I were to notice things unfold as described in this post... Assuming I'm not in charge: is it preferable that I somehow try to play a role in this, or would this only make everything more complicated/awkward. Should I stay back and just be pissed off? What would be the best way to appr…

Start off with polite inquiry. If it's a false positive, apologize truthfully!

If it's a true positive, you can still rebuke the aggressor politely. "Wow, that's really not cool, man. Don't you owe her an apology? What if somebody did that to your sister or mother?" You don't need to demolish the person because maybe they're not a lost cause and they can learn.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#246

Post by Crito »

dnautics wrote: post #18

might be a west coast thing. http://www.bitcoinnotbombs.com/bitcoin-doesnt-need-women/

This apparently happened in NYC.

I've lived on both coasts, and one thing that I have noticed is that people on the east coast refer to people on the west coast as being either not sufficiently progressive, or progressive in the wrong ways. People on the west coast refer to people on the east coast as being either sufficiently progressive, or progressive in the wrong ways.

Other than that, they both seem fairly identical to me...

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#247

Post by DorintheFlora »

dragonwriter wrote: post #244
DorintheFlora wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it? I personally doubt that. Do you have an example of something like that working? Or is that just speculation?

> Would it? I think it would draw more attention and useful discussion from people interested in doing more than emoting sympathy, complaining about discussions of women's negative experiences, or discussing abstractly whether addressing the situation in the moment would be more productive. Whether it would actually spread any more is another question, and one on which I don't have a strong feeling about.

In other words: It is just speculation. You (apparently) do not have a real world example to cite.

I am female. I have blogged before about some of my struggles with the glass ceiling, etc. It got no attention. Perhaps I was doing something wrong. But, as someone who has firsthand experience which contradicts your suggestion, I would be genuinely interested in seeing actual evidence. If I can find an example that works, I would love to follow that. I can't find it.

Thanks.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#248

Post by wonderzombie »

vacri wrote: post #241
wonderzombie wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is part of a pattern. You may feel OK with treating this as an isolated incident, but it's not. It deserves to be lumped into a category of common responses to stuff like this: victim blaming and derailing. It does approximately nothing to prevent a situation like this from happening. It puts the onus on a woman to deal with other people's utterly unacceptable behavior. It erases the responsibility no…

How many more caveats do I need? I even specified that the concept was up for debate and that it wasn't the victim's responsibility to do anything. everyone else in the room with her Unless everyone else in the room was attending to the interaction of her and that one guy, this is hyperbole and doesn't help. If I'm in a conversation on one side of the room, do you really expect me to run over and forbid someone putti…

Hey, I'm with you on the last part.

I'm addressing the fact that merrit's comment has no merit, and it's safe to pigeonhole it as worthless. The debate in this thread is whether or not it's helpful, and I weighed in, trying to talk about it at a somewhat higher level.

As far as "everyone else in the room" is concerned, that's absurd— it's a false dichotomy, excluded middle, etc. Rather than just write it off, think about it in good faith for like five minutes. How you would approach an ambiguous situation like this?

How about you ask? Apologize if you've intruded? You can all laugh it off — "ha, sorry, I thought you might be one of those guys" — and now you've broken the ice.

Nobody's asking you to be Superman zipping around the room, let alone the entire world. But there's a world of difference between that and just keeping an eye out once in a while.

Incidentally, in my mind, this counts as a productive conversation and not derailment— if more dudes showed less tolerance for this kind of bullshit, the world would be a better place.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#249

Post by Crito »

wonderzombie wrote: post #236
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role. How are we meant to know this is "rude behaviour?" unless we are privy to allot of information about their personal lives they could have a previous relationship, could be married, or be hooking up. If I see a guy put his…

How about you ask? Start by being polite. "Oh, I haven't been introduced. So how are you two connected?" You'll to have to step out of your comfort zone for this even if it is immediately obvious. And if it's normal, you've lost nothing.

Yeah, I do not feel comfortable doing anything even approaching policing other people's relationships. The most I would feel okay with doing is asking "Is everything okay here?", but even that is quite an ask and I would not consider it unless I noticed that one of the people was visibly upset.

Yeah, before you say it, "me feeling uncomfortable" is a pretty selfish excuse for not helping somebody that is feeling a hell of a lot more uncomfortable than I. I'm not going to make excuses for that. I'm just not going to start interrogating people in public about the nature of their relationships.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#250

Post by Crito »

DorintheFlora wrote: post #247
dragonwriter wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would it? I think it would draw more attention and useful discussion from people interested in doing more than emoting sympathy, complaining about discussions of women's negative experiences, or discussing abstractly whether addressing the situation in the moment would be more productive. Whether it would actually spread any more is another question, and one on which I don't have a strong feeling about.

In other words: It is just speculation. You (apparently) do not have a real world example to cite. I am female. I have blogged before about some of my struggles with the glass ceiling, etc. It got no attention. Perhaps I was doing something wrong. But, as someone who has firsthand experience which contradicts your suggestion, I would be genuinely interested in seeing actual evidence. If I can find an example that wor…

I don't think 'dragonwriter is suggesting what you think he is suggesting.
Post reply on HN