Live data from Hacker News

Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

medium.com

241–250 of 250 posts

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, some startups are actually exercises in programming. Real talk.

Seriously. Do people actually think Tumbler, Instragram, et al were the product of some Harvard MBAs with a genius business strategy? Many times success is fully explained just by the product + timing.

Couldn't agree more with that sentiment. Timing, luck, connections, execution, doing something you love. That's Instagram.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#242
post #9

Really good post, thanks David. I'm really curious as to how you landed an interview at Google (let alone a job) without a college degree. My understanding is they are very strict about that and it's hard to even get a foot in the door without a degree. [disclosure: I'm on a 10 year "hiatus" from my senior year in college]

I was contacted by Google without them knowing I had a degree, although they knew by the time I was scheduled for an interview. Apparently washing out in round one of Google Code Jame 2012 was enough for them to seek me out. I performed to expectation by similarly washing out of the interview. Steve Yegge wrote that you should apply to Google, no matter whether you think they'll take you or not, because it's a desira…

What was your excuse for that two missed days in your then current job?

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#243
post #9

Really good post, thanks David. I'm really curious as to how you landed an interview at Google (let alone a job) without a college degree. My understanding is they are very strict about that and it's hard to even get a foot in the door without a degree. [disclosure: I'm on a 10 year "hiatus" from my senior year in college]

I had six years of experience in video games and was a hardcore C++ programmer. To be honest, I was surprised they called me. Nowadays, showing a body of work speaks volumes. Show, don't tell!

Couple of points for your article:

Regarding the C++ self-assessment, it depends to whom your talking to. If it is a 10+ years of exp. hard core C++ programmer, then your point is right. But if it is some recruiter clerk - who just writes down your answers to compare with other candidates' answers later, then it is 10/10 :)

Another answer could be: "for your company, it is 10/10" depends on the company, of course.

But all in all, I find this score based questions quite stupid. Instead, you should ask for past projects using that particular language.

*

Now regarding your algorithmic part. Tell you honestly, the fact that the candidate implements the Dijkstra's algorithm quickly, because she implemented it twice, 2 weeks before the interview tells me just that - that she implemented it 2 weeks ago, twice....

I'd more value a candidate who have never implemented it, or implemented it 10+ years ago but doesn't remember details - when given the details/specs and a sufficient amount of time, and can implement it.

Overall, I prefer when the candidate can come up with the higher level solutions - knowing when to use e.g. Red-black (or any other balanced) tree, shortest path algorithms, suitable containers - data structures, etc... for some particular problems. The actual (hence 2 weeks ago) knowledge of every specific details of how to implement these is not that important.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A single bad engineer could theoretically destroy a company if they were savvy enough. This sentence does not compute. Anyways, I think a big portion of the "hiring problem" is that companies are too afraid of hiring a "bad" developer. They somehow have this notion that if they fail to hire a great developer then its no big deal, but if they accidentally hire a bad developer, their company will all go to shit. This…

Agreed. Many people parrot this line, but I have not seen anyone put actual data behind it. I have seen made-up scenarios about what could happen. Those usually stick to near worst case situations, though, with no indication of the actual risk. People also seem to minimize or ignore the cost of a no-hire. If your company has an open position it is trying to fill, it should be feeling pain. Work isn't getting done. Pr…

In my observation, the rule that people get promoted to their highest level of incompetence holds true way too often.

I.e. the incompetent new guy just has to fake it long enough that he gets promoted. Now his incompetence has leverage. He can most likely shove responsibility onto others, and eventually gets promoted again. More leverage.

If I were to start an organization, I would make damned sure that every single new hire could do what they were hired to do - and then some. Otherwise, the office dynamics may lead to a stagnant organization over time.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#245
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite common. But in many cases, unenforceable. For example, every contract I signed (both in the UK and Portugal) have it, and while I don't know for the UK, here in Portugal you can't sign your rights away which this falls under. So people just sign it and know if worst comes, the courts will always side by you.

Legal in the UK I think every contract I have ever signed says no outside work with out clearance from your boss. You can sign some rights away just not all of them.

It says on the contract, but is it really legal? I'm honestly asking as I mentioned, I know portuguese labour law quite well (my cousin is a lawyer specialising in labour law and as such, she looks over all my contracts and say what is valid or not.) Have you talked with a lawyer about it over there in the UK? I know the UK didn't sign some EU directives about overtime pay for IT workers so they don't fall on the common EU law, but when I was in England, noone I worked with actually knew if the 'outside work' clause was legal. I personally did freelance work (which my leads knew about) and never got any problem for it even though the contract specified I couldn't.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your title isn't dependent on your accomplishments or abilities, but only your schooling?

Can you call yourself a lawyer because you enjoy reading your state constitution? Can you call yourself an MD because you read r/poppit? No. Engineer is a professional designation. It requires a BS, a series of exams, and years of work experience. Engineers are regulated by professional organizations. Unless you've gone through the training and the tests, you aren't an engineer. You're a developer.

I disagree. In the vernacular, the term engineer is more casually used, like scientist. Lawyer means member of the bar, Physician means licensed to practice medicine. Engineer has multiple meanings depending on the context. A patient in a hospital would be confused by a literature PhD claiming to be a Doctor. I don't think a "sound engineer" or "special effects engineer" should apply for a job in a construction firm with the title "engineer", but I don't think the public is endangered by the ambiguity here.

That said, I strongly discourage software developers from using the term "engineering", mainly because I don't want the PE folks to start thinking they have any sort of business licensing software practitioners or getting involved in evaluating their competence.

As a math major (abet one with an MS in Industrial Engineering), I put no claim on engineering, and I dispute any claim engineering has over software. I think CS is more a branch of math than of engineering - so if the PE folks want to interfere in this, they can start by going back to college and taking a couple years of real analysis, abstract algebra, complex analysis, advanced linear algebra (with proofs, not some watered down "applications" course), and number theory. When they're ready to pass an in-depth exam on those subjects in order to get licensed to write code (after failing the first time), they'll have a taste of what regulatory capture really means.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#247
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you call yourself a lawyer because you enjoy reading your state constitution? Can you call yourself an MD because you read r/poppit? No. Engineer is a professional designation. It requires a BS, a series of exams, and years of work experience. Engineers are regulated by professional organizations. Unless you've gone through the training and the tests, you aren't an engineer. You're a developer.

I disagree. In the vernacular, the term engineer is more casually used, like scientist. Lawyer means member of the bar, Physician means licensed to practice medicine. Engineer has multiple meanings depending on the context. A patient in a hospital would be confused by a literature PhD claiming to be a Doctor. I don't think a "sound engineer" or "special effects engineer" should apply for a job in a construction firm…

> I think CS is more a branch of math than of engineering

It is, but designing software isn't CS any more than designing bridges is physics.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#248
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal in the UK I think every contract I have ever signed says no outside work with out clearance from your boss. You can sign some rights away just not all of them.

It says on the contract, but is it really legal? I'm honestly asking as I mentioned, I know portuguese labour law quite well (my cousin is a lawyer specialising in labour law and as such, she looks over all my contracts and say what is valid or not.) Have you talked with a lawyer about it over there in the UK? I know the UK didn't sign some EU directives about overtime pay for IT workers so they don't fall on the com…

BTW Professionals are exempt from a lot of the Directives on working time and 99% of IT workers are considered professionals.

Um IANAL but I am an "approved person" as it applies in the UK (ie I could represent some one at a discipline or grievance hearing)

In the UK and the USA employment law descends from the Masters and servants act.

The argument used would be having another job without your employers agreement is a fundamental breach of trust between the employer (master ) and the employee (servant)

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#249
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. In the vernacular, the term engineer is more casually used, like scientist. Lawyer means member of the bar, Physician means licensed to practice medicine. Engineer has multiple meanings depending on the context. A patient in a hospital would be confused by a literature PhD claiming to be a Doctor. I don't think a "sound engineer" or "special effects engineer" should apply for a job in a construction firm…

> I think CS is more a branch of math than of engineering It is, but designing software isn't CS any more than designing bridges is physics.

I agree completely. I think that requiring an exam in these subjects to obtain a software engineering license would be absurd - my point is that I don't think its any more absurd than licensing software "engineers" under the PE license.

I'm not really in favor of a professional license for software "engineering" - but if there were, I'd say it should stand completely apart from the PE.

The PE exam writers should feel free to include whatever software questions they like as they license, say, civil engineers, but they should stay in the business of civil engineering.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#250
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. In the vernacular, the term engineer is more casually used, like scientist. Lawyer means member of the bar, Physician means licensed to practice medicine. Engineer has multiple meanings depending on the context. A patient in a hospital would be confused by a literature PhD claiming to be a Doctor. I don't think a "sound engineer" or "special effects engineer" should apply for a job in a construction firm…

> I think CS is more a branch of math than of engineering It is, but designing software isn't CS any more than designing bridges is physics.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN