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Death in Singapore

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Re: Death in Singapore

#241

Post by arbus »

confluence wrote: post #123
arbus wrote: post #122

I'm a Singaporean and have served for some time in the military( Compulsory National Service as well as a short stint as a regular) and I think that the comments below seem to misunderstand the level of control that the government has over speech, people and companies in Singapore. We have many restrictive laws here but they are very selectively enforced. As long as you stay away from "hot" topics such as direct crit…

You are exhibiting some insane cognitive dissonance there. Your post is internally inconsistent. Singapore is Disneyland with a death penalty.

Sure its a Disneyland with a death penalty if you want to call it that but you seem to be implying that either I'm in acceptance with the way things are run or if I'm not, I have no business living here.

I think that uprooting from your home, leaving your family, friends and culture behind takes more than just disagreement with the wayyour government is run. This is of course assuming that you or your loved ones are not in immediate danger of any kind.

Re: Death in Singapore

#242

Post by cuz »

VexXtreme wrote: post #39

Sounds like a classic case of corporate murder. In the cozy world of web startups, we engineers have an incredible amount of freedom and control over our lives and what we do... but megacorps and companies connected to the defense/war industry are known for treating their engineers as fungible resources that can easily be disposed of once they get the job done. Sounds like something out of a hi-tech Tom Clancy spy no…

I am a part of Shane's family, and I can tell you all from my perspective there is no way Shane committed suicide. He was an incredibly talented and above all optimistic young man. That is not to say that individuals with these qualities do not meet this type of end, but that suicide did not fit at all with the reality of Shane's life.

When Shane's death was ruled a suicide by the Singapore police I was deeply shocked but felt that I had no option but to accept it. However, as more details emerged it soon became clear that his death was not his own doing.

It is still incredibly upsetting that Shane's parents Rick and Mary may never have the answers and closure that they (we all) need. Please spread the word as best you can about this story. Please be careful with yourselves, wherever your careers may bring you.

Re: Death in Singapore

#243

Post by ftay »

ayah77 wrote: post #156

With the Singapore media reporting nearly every event that happen on the island, from the mundane to the salacious, how is it that the unusual death of a young American expat gets no ink at all? Obviously a higher up must have ordered SPH to suppress the story. Why? As history has shown time and again, once there is a cover up, the bells should be ringing... Something's rotten in Singapore.

Suicides generally don't get reported unless they are exceptional in some way (e.g. celebrities, murder-suicide combo)

Re: Death in Singapore

#244

Post by joewandy »

jessaustin wrote: post #127
ginger_beer wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I see. Yes it does resemble a speaker then. Was viewing the article from mobile, and all the images were stripped out. Still, several things in the article couls probably be attributed to the Singaporean police force's incompetence and not outright malice. Being corruption-free != being competent. The family didn't help either by withholding evidence. They should have created a mirror of the external drive, then h…

The family didn't help either by withholding evidence. They should have created a mirror of the external drive, then handed the original to the police (instead of offering to do it the other way around). This is ridiculous. The Todds lost their son. The police did a desultory job of investigating his death, and the family have the drive only because of how poorly the police secured the scene. On what planet do the To…

The alleged crime happened in a foreign and independent country, where they have no choice but to play by the rules of that country. That's why. Non-cooperation just makes it worse, ensuring that nothing at all gets done.

Re: Death in Singapore

#245

Post by jessaustin »

joewandy wrote: post #244
jessaustin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The family didn't help either by withholding evidence. They should have created a mirror of the external drive, then handed the original to the police (instead of offering to do it the other way around). This is ridiculous. The Todds lost their son. The police did a desultory job of investigating his death, and the family have the drive only because of how poorly the police secured the scene. On what planet do the To…

The alleged crime happened in a foreign and independent country, where they have no choice but to play by the rules of that country. That's why. Non-cooperation just makes it worse, ensuring that nothing at all gets done.

When in-country, Todd's followed the rules. They were in Singapore to collect their son's possessions, and they did that. This saved the Singapore police and/or the landlord from having to sell or throw away those possessions. If there were any way for them to do the police's job of investigating the incident, I'm sure they would have attempted that as well, since clearly the police abdicated that responsibility.

Now they're in the USA, and Singapore's rules no longer apply to them.

The police can do anything with a disk image they could have done with the original disk, except tamper with the evidence. If they still claim to require the original disk, that clearly demonstrates their intentions.

Re: Death in Singapore

#246

Post by mhartl »

mhartl wrote: post #238
api wrote: post #143

I'm amazed at how many elite-school tech types idolize Singapore for some strange reason. I've heard a number of gushing recommendations for the place from the MIT/Harvard set. I personally see it as some kind of horrible sci-fi "Stepford Wives" "smile or die" dystopia... like a yuppie latte-sipping upscale version of North Korea. It makes me thankful for ghettoes and dirt and bums, given the alternative.

for some strange reason Singapore is a thriving metropolis with negligible crime and essentially no graffiti, has the third-highest per-capita income in the world, and manages to govern four major ethnic groups without devolving into pogroms or race riots. Is it really so strange to idolize such a place? Singapore does have the death penalty for a few too many things, I'll admit, but you're not likely to get the ax f…

N.B. I should have written "Lees" instead of "Yews", as Lee Kuan Yew (born "Harry Lee") uses the Chinese (and Korean) convention of listing the family name first. His successor as Singapore's prime minister is his son Lee Hsien Loong, much as Kim Il Sung's successor was Kim Jong Il.

Re: Death in Singapore

#247

Post by venus »

lutusp wrote: post #235
venus wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned Yeah man. Why don't you say "Tell you what, if you think prison isn't inhumane, you go spend 25 years in prison" Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? Anyway, that video is hard to watch, and I would be sympathetic to an appeal to reduce cane size and weight.

> Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? I don't know if it has an official name. I call it the "Jury Fallacy." The Jury Fallacy says that, to have the right to express an opinion or form a judgment about some behavior, you must have personally experienced, or taken part in, that behavior. Which would mean that, to serve on a jury in a murder trial, yo…

Thanks for the reply. That's a good name, although I'd extend it to the "Jury of Murderers Fallacy".

I think your example is subtly different though, and is similar to what I think of as the "You Don't Know What It's Like Fallacy". So named because of its typical use when criticising or commenting on X: "How dare you. You don't know what it's like to be X". X being any group you care to name from Atheists to Zoophiles. Or, in your example, murderers.

This case is slightly different, since the fallacy is to claim that you cannot criticise A, where A is an act, process or tradition, unless you have a personal connection or experience with A. If I had used this fallacy against my adversary, I could perhaps have claimed that he has no right to criticise the Singaporean justice system since he is not Singaporean, or that he has no standing to criticise because he has not been a victim of violent crime.

Personal Experience Fallacy? Personal Connection Fallacy? Outsider Fallacy? Insider Fallacy? I'll think about this.

Re: Death in Singapore

#248

Post by PeterisP »

wilfra wrote: post #73
PeterisP wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the article in no way actually implies corruption. If the men in power decided that Shane's death needed to be covered up, and the men in uniforms followed orders - then that is exactly how a non-corrupt police state works; you have strict order but that order doesn't neccessarily favor the people. A corrupt state would have the relevant police officer be bribed individually and/or extracting favors from the re…

If the men in power decided the death needs to be covered up, that is exactly evidence of corruption - it's just high-level corruption and not low-level. Mexico is an example of a country with a lot of low-level corruption (you can bribe the police to get out of anything). The United States is an example of a country with very little low-level corruption, but with (arguably) lots of high-level corruption. Singapore i…

It's high level corruption if a ranking official enriches himself to harm the state/government. It's [efficient, non-corrupt but still] dictatorship if a ranking official says "ends justify means" and is ready to harm citizens if it's useful for state/government/military goals.
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