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I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

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Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#241

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #233
ericmay wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really the same thing. I really do not at all understand why folks see any sort of military intervention that isn't over in 5 minutes as "the next Vietnam". Venezuela was going to be the next Vietnam too. It's like "the next 2008" all over again espoused as a traumatic, quasi-religious point of view. Rather interesting from a cultural evolution standpoint - seems to be that some folks can't shake a trauma so…

> An economic blockade could do that, or at worst simply deprive the Iranian government of the means to financially carry out war. This sounds like the sort of "quasi-religious point of view" you're slamming, considering it's been tried repeatedly already without great success.

No, it doesn't sound like that.

We haven't ever tried this level of economic isolation with Iran. The closest would be North Korea. If you wanted to attempt to make it sound as though I was parroting a quasi-religious point of view, you would want to argue (which I haven't because it's incorrect) that I'm looking at what happened with North Korea (a regime that exists to terrorize the world thanks to communist regimes in China and the Soviet Union) and that I'm saying all blockades or economic sanctions will work just like that, which is, of course, nonsense, just as comparing Iran to Vietnam today is.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#242

Post by ericmay »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #235
ericmay wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really the same thing. I really do not at all understand why folks see any sort of military intervention that isn't over in 5 minutes as "the next Vietnam". Venezuela was going to be the next Vietnam too. It's like "the next 2008" all over again espoused as a traumatic, quasi-religious point of view. Rather interesting from a cultural evolution standpoint - seems to be that some folks can't shake a trauma so…

How’s that working against Russia?

Pretty well I think? Are you up to date with the Russian economic situation? Or are you suggesting the EU and US stop sanctions since they aren't effective?

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#243

Post by floro »

peterabbitcook wrote: post #29

A couple years ago I worked on a service that had to communicate with a Siemens S7-1500 PLC. Based on my experience with that project, none of what I’ve read recently about unsecured industrial PLCs is surprising. I opened Siemens TIA Portal and PLCSIM for the first time and thought “wow, I didn’t think the Windows 95 GUI library was still supported.” None of the PLC contractors we had hired knew how to enable TLS on…

I work with logistics automation software. Most PLCs I've worked with are legacy and don't even support TLS. Doesn't surprise me at all. I honestly am baffled how old some of these sites are and never got a security upgrade.

Now with the EU cyber resiliency act things are moving but I think it's infeasible for many sites to meet modern security standards, because of both hardware and software.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#244

Post by cyanydeez »

ericmay wrote: post #229
cyanydeez wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the current admin, assumptions about capabilities are just wrong. One of the reasons for consitency above all else is to use the power of history. Ahistorical is now the defacto standard. All asdumptions about America power are toilet paper.

For this to be true it would also mean that assumptions about capabilities in a negative light are also wrong. If one were to say the US is extremely weak, that would be an assumption about a capability that is now by your decree also just wrong . In other words, this comment is rather meaningless when read plainly - I mean that factually, not as an insult.

sure. stop generating.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#245

Post by ceejayoz »

ericmay wrote: post #241
ceejayoz wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An economic blockade could do that, or at worst simply deprive the Iranian government of the means to financially carry out war. This sounds like the sort of "quasi-religious point of view" you're slamming, considering it's been tried repeatedly already without great success.

No, it doesn't sound like that. We haven't ever tried this level of economic isolation with Iran. The closest would be North Korea. If you wanted to attempt to make it sound as though I was parroting a quasi-religious point of view, you would want to argue (which I haven't because it's incorrect) that I'm looking at what happened with North Korea (a regime that exists to terrorize the world thanks to communist regime…

> The closest would be North Korea.

This is your best example? The now nuclear power that's resisted the approach you advocate since the 1950s?

See? Quasi-religious.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#246

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #245
ericmay wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't sound like that. We haven't ever tried this level of economic isolation with Iran. The closest would be North Korea. If you wanted to attempt to make it sound as though I was parroting a quasi-religious point of view, you would want to argue (which I haven't because it's incorrect) that I'm looking at what happened with North Korea (a regime that exists to terrorize the world thanks to communist regime…

> The closest would be North Korea. This is your best example? The now nuclear power that's resisted the approach you advocate since the 1950s? See? Quasi-religious.

No that's incorrect - what would be quasi religious and similar to this obsession with Vietnam would be for me or someone else to use North Korea's economic isolation as an example in the same strong fashion.

I'd encourage you to re-read my comment to see how I drew that distinction.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#247

Post by ericmay »

sofixa wrote: post #210
wbl wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Vietnam war the US didn't win because it couldn't, no matter how much force was employed. Here same thing: we can't depose the Iranian government without a land invasion (which is too costly) and nothing else keeps them from having control of the strait.

Exactly, which makes this a stupid war to start in the first place. Also, to be clear, a land invasion isn't "too costly". It's suicidal because we're talking about a massive country that has been preparing for decades, has a terrain advantage and literally more than a million fanatics ready to die for the regime. You'd need millions of soldiers deployed, and are looking at some Operation Downfall level expected loss…

I'm not suggesting we should even consider invading Iran - mostly because we don't need to, but these numbers you are throwing around seem a bit off the mark without either a time horizon or some other qualifier.

Also... a million fanatics ready to die for the regime? Maybe. Maybe some of them value their lives.

We've dealt with fanatics multiple times whether that's Japanese willing to die for the emperor or Muslim extremists throughout the Middle East trying to get their 72 virgins. Nobody in the US is scared of dealing with fanatics. Been there, done that. Iran is more mountainous and the terrain is a challenge but the major population centers aren't hidden in bunkers in the hills. Iran is also not landlocked, and unlike, for example, Afghanistan, we would be dealing with a population that has familiarity with the modern world and has at times even protested en masse against the current government of Iran.

Again, none of that is to suggest we should or politically could "invade Iran", and of course I don't think it's necessary to achieve any of our goals, but let's not put Iran on a pedestal either.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#248

Post by quickthrowman »

fg137 wrote: post #89
quickthrowman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they’re prefabbed walk-in coolers or freezers (at minimum, they could be purpose built cold storage warehouses) with multiple condensers, evaporators, pumps, temperature sensors, and humidity sensors. The refrigeration equipment needs some sort of control system and direct digital control is the usual way to do that these days. This is food storage for a commissary, aka a store. They don’t use residential ref…

Do regular grocery stores use a similar system? Or are locally controlled, simpler systems?

You can stick with local control and no internet access, all of the major BAS integrators offer completely offline systems. A BAS system is pretty simple, there are microcontrollers with binary and analog inputs and outputs that get networked together (RS-485, Ethernet, ARCnet), sensors and relays get wired to the microcontrollers. The microcontroller network is usually connected to a control panel that orchestrates the controllers, this is what you can connect to via the internet or a local pc not attached to the internet.

But pretty much any grocery store with multiple refrigerated/freezer cases is going to have an automation system that runs it.

Re: I think the military commissary's freezers were hacked

#250

Post by nwallin »

RobotToaster wrote: post #201
nwallin wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aircraft carriers are not particularly well suited to be supplied by cargo aircraft. The largest cargo aircraft with the strengthened landing gear, arresting hook, and catapult attachment used to be the C-2 Greyhound. It had a range of approximately 1,500 miles with a 10,000 pound cargo. It was retired on July 28th, 2026. The C-2 has been replaced by the CMV-22B Osprey. It has a range of only 1,150 miles and a more l…

> It was retired on July 28th, 2026. Why does it seem like the US always retires useful hardware and replaces it with less useful hardware? The complete lack of frigates in the US navy is another example of this.

Another pending example is the 2035 retirement of the E-3 AWACS and its replacement by the much less capable E-2D. There are/were other more capable options on the table, including the E-7 and the E-10, both of which have been canceled.
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