GOOD
I love using Claude but Fable's unusable wrt useful work like cryptography, biology, &c.
Kneecapping my productivity when I pay $100/month is annoying af.
“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
241–250 of 742 posts
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#242Does this matter? Distillation is not illegal by every definition of the word. There are millions of samples available on huggingface and models explicitely trained on output produced by fable. There has been no action taken against them. Another example is that it appears that the upper limit of what you can do is ultimately dependent on people working on the model, otherwise grok would be a LOT more competitive pre…
I agree distillation isn't illegal; I also think Moonshot/Kimi is very impressive. But the more interesting question is whether labs like Moonshot can be a real competitor to OpenAI/Anthropic. If you can only play catchup (however quickly you do that), then you're never going to be at the frontier - I think that's why distillation matters.
My entire point was that this was not achieved purely from distillation and claiming that is slander against open research.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's about the claim of whether these companies could develop a similarly powerful model without larger companies building their own first, which is an important point, and it's likely not the case. It's also about the larger companies explaining why they can't be as efficient, of course they can't, they're not just ripping the outputs of another model that someone else invested billions to train.
Simply knowing it is possible to do something makes it easier to do.
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Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#244Reminds of the quote by Bill Gates. > "Well, Steve [Jobs]… I think it’s more like we both had this rich neighbour named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it." Source: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/824084-well-steve-jobs-i-th...
That's an amazing quote LMAO
Wow.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of the models stole the entirety of written knowledge on the internet to train. They are being sued for the few cases where we have some proof of what they did because of some whistleblowers, all the rest will just go unpunished. They breached Github TOS, robot.txt's, copyright, patents every form of IP protection under the sun from a billion sources. It's just ridiculous for the thieves to cry about someone else…
Do you care about the law or not? I think theft is bad everywhere, not just when Anthropic does it.
no, I don't care about thieves getting stolen from. why would I?
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#246Weird 'discussion'. Almost entirely single messages with no threads, all with the same anti-Anthropic/AI position.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#247Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
It matters because the closed-source frontier labs spend lots of money on human data (RLHF / RLAIF with human oversight). Moonshot is accused of circumventing these costs. Frontier labs add research costs into their inference pricing. If the market doesn't permit them to sustain sufficient pricing to have a positive cash flow, then their business prospects become weaker and they risk insolvency. Furthermore, other le…
My parents put in countless hours and tens of thousands of dollars into raising me to the point where I could write an answer on StackOverflow And OpenAI scraped and distilled that answer and gave me nothing
And now people such as myself have access to open weight models with that information.
I wasn't lucky enough to have parents put me through school, and LLMs have absolutely helped me further educate myself and play "catch up" on opportunities others have been given. So, the net effect has been (and is continuing to be) a democratization of information.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not OP, but copyright law is an absolute joke. No, I don’t care one whit that someone’s TOS was violated. In fact, I find it hilarious. And it’s not “theft.”
"I think we shouldn't have IP protection at all" is a totally valid position to hold, but that's not the law is. OP said it didn't violate the law, and it does.
Some laws are very obviously unworthy of consideration, with broad consensus from the public. See what happened when Napster came out. Literally no one cares about some red-faced RIAA suit flicking spittle over some shared Metallica albums.
Same thing here. This whole situation is just comical.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of the models stole the entirety of written knowledge on the internet to train. They are being sued for the few cases where we have some proof of what they did because of some whistleblowers, all the rest will just go unpunished. They breached Github TOS, robot.txt's, copyright, patents every form of IP protection under the sun from a billion sources. It's just ridiculous for the thieves to cry about someone else…
Do you care about the law or not? I think theft is bad everywhere, not just when Anthropic does it.
I find that I care more when copyright violations cause actual harm to the copyright owner. Let's say there's an American kid who can't speak Japanese but wants to keep up with a weekly manga. He downloads a bootleg translation and shares it among his friend group. That is a copyright violation, but meh. If he hadn't gone the illegal route, he'd more likely just not read it at all. There's very little chance he'd pay for a subscription and learn Japanese.
Now, if that kid were to print the bootleg translation and sell it to schoolmates, that's worth a slap on the wrist. The kids willing to pay would likely have paid for official copies.
When these LLM labs download our works, feed them into their models, and sell the output to people that used to pay for our work, that's worth a very hard slap. I honestly have less of a problem with the open models.