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A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

coveillance.org

241–250 of 339 posts

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#241
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countryside. Near-zero public surveillance, near-zero violent crime, and conservative sheriffs and juries who work to keep it that way.

My goat herding skills are rusty. How do I make a living in the countryside?

You have options. Doctors and nurses clean up, better pay than in a city. Work at a factory (either in the plant or in the office). Lawyers and financial advisors to the farmers who sold out to developers/energy/data centers. Or work remote

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#242
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tolerating vicious verbal attacks disguised by somewhat subdued body language (missing data/difficult to detect). Almost all of these cameras have microphones as well. Not as difficult to detect as you may believe

Once you have road noise and a distance of 10+ metres, that audio is unlikely to be useful.

The thousands of viral ring videos, and flock itself, would beg to differ. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detecti...

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, do we know why crime isn’t being prosecuted anymore? I’ve noticed where I live this definitely seems to be the case and has a two fold effect, police aren’t even bothering to enforce laws because when they do the city/county refuses to prosecute and then criminals are getting wise to this and escalating their crimes. Previously where I live there would be violent crimes but generally in the early hou…

There's a lot here to unpack - and it's incredibly nuanced. Crime in most countries is on the decline, there have been "blips" or "spikes", but the reality is that crime is decreasing. When people talk about communities not being policed, there's also multiple things at play - partly it's perception, which is subjective, and not very reliable (back in my dayyyyyy), and partly it's about focus. As for prosecution - mo…

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Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#244
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot here to unpack - and it's incredibly nuanced. Crime in most countries is on the decline, there have been "blips" or "spikes", but the reality is that crime is decreasing. When people talk about communities not being policed, there's also multiple things at play - partly it's perception, which is subjective, and not very reliable (back in my dayyyyyy), and partly it's about focus. As for prosecution - mo…

Crime statistics are on the decline. It's harder to tell whether actual crime is on the decline.

Anecdata isn't going to get us any closer.

Statistics gathered the way the are is all we have

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#245
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if instead of trying to figure out how to catch criminals, we focus on building a society where no one wants to be a criminal? Can we find solutions to what causes crime, like desperation, greed, fear, failure to understand and have compassion for other people, etc?

For anyone trying to figure out how to build a society where no one wants to be a criminal, I highly recommend When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment by Mark Kleiman. There are evidence-backed ways of reducing criminality. One counterintuitive way of reducing crime is to increase the likelihood of being caught, to have small-but-increasing consequences for committing crimes, and to increas…

An intuitive way to understand it is imagining that there was a system where if you stole something, you 100% of the time got hit with a charge to your account of the item value + $10. No one would steal again even if the penalty for getting caught was relatively nothing. Because the feedback loop is so short and guaranteed.

No ones life would be ruined over a dumb choice and yet they would change their behavior very fast.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#246
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s political. The same thing is happening with marijuana. A state legalizes it and then functional junkies show up from conservative states to smoke it in doors. Places like Colorado have laws to regulate it but they don’t. Police and judges follow suit because mayors don’t want to create a precedent that would scare potheads. This keeps the drug money coming in and crime stats low. It’s crazy because regulation is…

If the state legalized it then it’s not a crime as far as the state is concerned. The feds still have it illegal but states are not required to enforce or even help federal law enforcement to enforce their own laws. They can choose to do so but it’s not an obligation. Your comment is coming from the perspective that they are criminals because you don’t like the activity, not because they broke the law. Lobby your sta…

Even if a state legalized marijuana it’s still illegal to possess a lot of it, to sell it without a license, and can violate tort, municipal, state and federal laws about drug smoke outdoors or indoors. It’s not my opinion, it’s regulation based on scientific evidence to protect public health. A lot of this is understood in California but cash poor states with huge budge problems look the other way. Potheads know this, they use these facts to pressure cities and states to take their dirty money. Since the revenue from taxing marijuana isn’t going to K-12 schools a lot of locals are getting tired of the bad money coming from pot. It’s a trade off like legalizing gambling but with no benefits. Smokers make up a fraction of the total population so you’re going to see pushback very soon.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#247
post #73

America needs to realize that this is absolutely not the land of the free anymore. The government and big business are in cahoots to screw you out of every cent they can and to make sure you're not about to commit some unspeakable act of terror, like hold up the wrong protest sign. Edit: case in point by https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-oracle-co-...

Or maybe it is the land of the free, and its the ones acting the most unfree (and resigning to their agency and sense of empowerment) and pretending to strongly proclaim everyone else isn't free that are ruining it for others? For example, you have a right to bear arms. Peaceful protests, with guns, are a historically great way to remind those in power that the power comes with duty and obligation to protect the peop…

    Peaceful protests, with guns, are a historically great way to remind those in
    power that the power comes with duty and obligation to protect the people.
That worked out great for Alex Pretti.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asking me why I can't write plainly, but I believe you're confusing me for the author, but I'll answer you anyways. "Plain" language removes nuance. Example: "She sat on the chair". The number of ways that action can be described are as innumerable as the ways it can be done, and then some - as different people may describe an act in different ways. Communication in all forms is lossy, but you can convey more…

I asked about your comment that I replied to. The "stories" you see in the camera positioning would need elaboration. To me the concept sounds quite mundane. It's pointed at something they want to see. Cash register: see if someone steals, possibly an employee. ATM: See if it gets robbed. Camera built into the atm: capture photo of robber. Not sure what deeper story or insight lies in it and you gave no example.

The "stories" I reference are the wide ranges of events, decisions, and conversations that went into the camera's placement. Are the cameras just for show? Have they recently modernized? Were there discussions and arguments around employee or patron privacy? Are the videos watched incessantly or left to molder? Cameras are rarely mundane, they are a very visible representation of controls related to trust and privacy.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#249
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime statistics are on the decline. It's harder to tell whether actual crime is on the decline.

Anecdata isn't going to get us any closer. Statistics gathered the way the are is all we have

Are the statistics accurate?

Jeff Bezos said, "I have a saying, which is when the data and the anecdotes disagree, the anecdotes are usually right."

https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript/#chapter6_amazo...

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#250
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best guess would be [[Surveillance cameras normalize/denormalize behavior in a way that is easily biased and undemocratic.]] It might e.g. direct the full force of law against a drunk urinating on a tree (easy to spot/classify), while tolerating vicious verbal attacks disguised by somewhat subdued body language (missing data/difficult to detect). Letting automated surveillance systems judge people will inevitably…

> tolerating vicious verbal attacks disguised by somewhat subdued body language Two people arguing in public, words only, is close to a legal non-event in the US. So I would hope so?

The threshold for a surveillance system to affect societal norms is not necessarily "legal event", and potentially even lower than any observable reaction (from self-censorship).

Just consider how algorithmic moderation can shape language (=> people using weird constructs like "to unalive", or weird metaphors in chinese), even in contexts where it would technically be unnecessary.

A close US equivalent is the "cant google that, I'll end up on a list" notion. This is all quite undesirable from my point of view.

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