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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#241

Post by seb1204 »

amunozo wrote: post #92
SoftTalker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can exist, but life will be as inconvenient as it was in the 1990s (though importantly, it didn't seem inconvenient at the time, it was just the way things were).

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.

You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#242

Post by rixed »

nerdsniper wrote: post #209
dandandandan2 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immense…

I mean, I cant rent city bicycles without a phone in a lot of cities or use uber or lyft but okay.

Or pay for parking in many european cities. So I guess you are not forced into a hermit life as long as... you are already happy with your hermit life.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#243

Post by selfhoster1312 »

dandandandan2 wrote: post #171
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immense…

Here in France, my bank won't let me 2FA into my account (i have to physically go to the bank every single time i need something), and i can't get car ownership papers for a car i legally bought from the registered owner 2 years ago due to the administration closing down 100% of their offices in favor of online forms (tried the online forms many times, as well as registered letter to the headquarters).

This anecdata probably says more about french techno-fascism and politics of destroying public services than about how phones have somehow become mandatory because of society evolving in general. I'm still very happy not to have a phone.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#244

Post by brandonr49 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #216
deaux wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.

> the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. In some countries people are willing to fight much harder against being coerced to have to use a smartphone. The message should thus rather be: follow their example.

It's easier to fight for additional rights when you start at a reasonably high baseline.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#245

Post by jjav »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone.

Fight this, fight it hard. It is not acceptable to have to pay a monthly fee to a giant corporation to participate in unrelated things.

I do have a cell phone (grudgingly) but I go way out of my way to never use it. I tell every business I only have a landline phone (which I do have). I will not use anything that supposedly requires a phone, give me an alternative or you're not getting my business.

While I don't have the full ethical commitment of RMS, I can be very obstinate and will push this hard.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#246

Post by brandonr49 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #217
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. You won't immediately die, because most people can survive for quite some time on nothing but questionable river water and a piece of cardboard under a bridge, but there is a difference between survival and existing in society.

> No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. Because you made yourself dependent on these smartphone-only services beforehand. Don't do that.

More likely the services transformed into smartphone only when the user wasn't looking. Switching costs are not zero.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#247

Post by jjav »

aembleton wrote: post #188
abc123abc123 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the way! I do not have a smartphone. I print maps, use email, print boarding cards, do my banking and shopping with a web browser, pay with cash or a debit card. I think people have been brain washed to believe they can no longer live life without being enslaved by a surveillance device. Lost? Ask for directions. Need a map? Go to a hotel or a tourist center, or print one in advance.

When you go on holiday, do you have to find an Internet café to print off your boarding pass for the flight home? Or do you select destinations covered by airlines that allow you to get a boarding pass more than 48 hours in advance?

> Internet café to print off your boarding pass for the flight home?

You can print the boarding pass at the airline kiosk at the airport, at least in any US airport I've been to. I always do this.

As noted in a peer post I try very hard to do everything without a phone. I do have a phone but don't want to depend on it.

Boarding passes in particular seem very unreliable on a phone. I always have the paper boarding pass printed at the airport but for curiosity I check the phone app boarding pass. More than 50% of the time the phone app boarding pass hangs from bad connectivity while standing at the gate and I can't retrieve it. Fortunately I always have the printed boarding pass so that always works. Paper does not rely on internet connectivity so it will always be infinitely more reliable.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#248

Post by jjav »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #184
Insimwytim wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> restaurant menus Well, that's easy to deal with - don't go the restaurants that openly disrespect you. Out of all the examples you have presented everything had worked somehow without phones not so long ago. Maybe, with the exception of online public transit status streaming. And public transit still works without it.

This is the way. Don't go, or if you don't know, ask for a menu, if that does not exist, ask for a phone from the staff. Have used all of these methods with excellent results. The restaurants wants to sell, they will find you a menu or a phone.

Yes, absolutely!

On the occasions where I've been to a restaurant that tries to pull off the QR nonsense, I just ask for a menu, I tell them I don't have a phone.

I've yet to see one where they can't find me an actual menu. If it ever happens, I'll walk out and be very annoyingly loud at letting them know why they lost my business.

Pushing for your rights isn't always pleasant, but it's important.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#249

Post by nonamesleft »

amunozo wrote: post #154
spankibalt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and ju…

Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.

Nordic, works just fine, i only have an HMD 'Nokia' non-smartphone (i detest capacitive touchscreens, and my previous ungoogled qwerty android phone broke, waiting for my next one to arrive in 2026-12 or thereabouts).

No QR-code-only restaurants that i have seen, and i would walk out without a word if that happened (even if i had a device that can do that). Bank does 2FAs second part with an SMS, first part is username, password and an otp code from a paper. Bank login is also a very common way of logging into governmental systems, but those only use the username, password and otp code, skipping the SMS, alternatively i could use an id card with a reader, state provides even Linux software for that.

The housing companys winter car engine heating sockets operate with an app, or alternatively just opening the lid and setting the timer yourself.

Additional data point: my dad, when he was still alive (-2025), had a smartphone but wouldn't use apps beyond facebook, did his banking by mailing in signed bills or at the bank in person, without an appointment.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#250

Post by jjav »

SoftTalker wrote: post #139
troyvit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.

When I go to a restaurant that has QR-only menus, I won't make a scene about it, but it lowers the mental rating I give the place and I'm less likely to return.

I suggest making a scene about it.

I've never encountered such a restaurant but will definitely make a scene about it if it happens.

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