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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#241

Post by kreco »

pjmlp wrote: post #227

The biggest issue, is that the whole stack keeps being dependent on external nations, as per the companies that actually contribute to FOSS with big money. https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributo... Then it is Go (Google), Java (Oracle, IBM, Red-Hat), .NET (Microsoft), Rust (Amazon, Microsoft, Google), Typescript (Microsoft), C and C++ (Red-Hat, IBM, Microsoft, Apple Google, ...), and so on.

Using a programming language is not the same as using a service.

I can't seen any reason for this to be "the biggest issue".

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#242

Post by pjc50 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #203
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there would have been mumblings in certain sectors of the EU since the first Trump administration? It’s just that they started to execute now?

There been mumblings for as long as I've been a developer, I remember hearing about "EU data independence" first when the ePrivacy Directive came around, which must have been multiple decades ago at this point. But yeah, in recent times the sentiment became more urgent. If I were to guess, with zero data in front of me and just judging by what I remember, I think the sentiment really changed first with the ICC blocka…

Yes, that was the thing that set off all the alarms. Trump 1 said a lot of things but had not completed the Hungary-fication of the US. Trump 1 was also before the Ukraine war!

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#243

Post by spockz »

MoaMoli wrote: post #192
TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

i mean it makes so much sense, cause of the political instability. I recently was at a reception (because of the europe day) and there I talked to some officials that told me that even they don't really know how to to tackle the problems of nowadays. Basically every european state is trying to move its IT infrastructure from the US to Europe and i read somewhere in the news that Aldi is supposed to provide infrastruc…

It is a subsidiary of Lidl: https://www.techzine.eu/news/infrastructure/140634/dutch-cen...

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#244

Post by joe_mamba »

pjc50 wrote: post #168
unixhero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a change. It has been asked since the advent of GDPR. So nearly 10 years.

GDPR is a bureaucratic annoyance. Trump is an existential threat.

Trump is not the core issue since he isn't a hereditary monarchical dictator.

It's the US population that's the problem, since they voted to put him into power TWICE, which means that they can also do it again, and again, and again, for other candidates not named Trump and not always Republican, but who could be even more unhinged, so we need to do everything to decouple from them so that their election decisions will impact us less.

No offence guys, but you do bare the responsibility of your democratic choices, as do we.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#245

Post by thesquandered »

AllanSavageDev wrote: post #176
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

EU hosting their own ops like they built the Airbus A380: Database runs in France, front end in Belgium, Operations in Spain... EU Fairness dictates they all need to get a slice of the pie so this will be interesting (and by that I mean absurdly hilarious).

An entire continent's sentiment shifting to pull market share away from your team is nothing to snark at, regardless of whether the first iteration works perfectly out of the box. I can guarantee you someone in Europe is smart enough to eventually get their needs sorted.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#246

Post by oneplane »

libertine wrote: post #199
andruby wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example you mention is a tricky one, ASML is about as European as it is American. It is heavily subject to US export controls because its machines include US components, US software and US IP. They operate multiple R&D centers and factories in the US and employ a lot of US employees (~20%)

Out of curiosity, couldn't ASML replace the all of those elements with either their own development or new suppliers? This is taking into account the worst case scenario, which isn't that unlikely to happen. I mean, for sure there are these plans in motion already, but how hard would it be?

Not really, some of the IP is core to the product and it cannot function without it. In theory if you do something like come up with a complete replacement for EUV, you could, but everyone with deep pockets has already been trying to do that without success. Same goes for the supply chains, most companies (including ASML) don't manufacture everything themselves; so components that come out of the US would need non-US suppliers, which don't always exist.

I suppose it's a case of 'technically possible, realistically infeasible'.

A more likely scenario might be either a from-scratch not-as-good machine that you can source locally (supply-chain wise) or a novel finding (which is hard to predict if it will happen and if so, when).

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#247

Post by chasd00 »

wolvoleo wrote: post #116
sisve wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.

> It will take significant time to build trust again

and nothing of value was lost. What did the US get out of the relationship?

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#248

Post by embedding-shape »

joe_mamba wrote: post #155
throwaway2037 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that has never happened to any European company, right? (I'm looking at you ASML.) By your logic, does that mean that most European nations are "no longer the safety many assumed before"?

Not just ASML, when I working in EU at another major Dutch semiconductor company, the leadership and decision making was mostly US-based and centered around US policies, even if the HQ was still technically in the NL, but because PE and most other major investors were all US Bay Area. For example my manager had to reject a candidate from Iran, simply due to US policies, even if that wasn't against the EU policies, an…

> but the truth is if you want your SaaS to make money, you gotta be in the US

Worth specifying here you're talking about VC-infested SaaS, not just your run-of-the-mill bootstrapped SaaS. It's very much possible to run a SaaS in Europe and make money, as countless of people already do, which I'm sure you too are aware of, but probably way harder to raise similar amount of money as US companies, that I'd agree with.

Edit: Strange typo; s/infested/invested, but kind of makes sense like that too so I'll just leave it, Freudian slip or something.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#249

Post by pjc50 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #244
pjc50 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is a bureaucratic annoyance. Trump is an existential threat.

Trump is not the core issue since he isn't a hereditary monarchical dictator. It's the US population that's the problem, since they voted to put him into power TWICE, which means that they can also do it again, and again, and again, for other candidates not named Trump and not always Republican, but who could be even more unhinged, so we need to do everything to decouple from them so that their election decisions wil…

Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. The real enduring toxic legacy is the packing of SCOTUS, sold to voters as a means of overturning Roe V Wade but in fact a massive enabler for corruption and gerrymandering. Those guys are there until they die or Democrats grow a spine, probably the former.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#250

Post by FpUser »

drstewart wrote: post #164
vrganj wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're referring to: https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukrai...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban. Trust is broken forever.

>"Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban."

Well, EU and the rest of the world owes nothing to Ukraine, yet they have provided much help. Blind trust is stupid anyways. Especially between countries.

>"Trust is broken forever."

This sounds like a drama queen. Look at your own politicians first.

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