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Airport Security Is Killing Us

businessweek.com

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Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#241

Post by flyinRyan »

mstefanko wrote: post #34
seiji wrote: post #4

What is the answer though? Can you imagine a politician running under a "massively downsize the TSA" banner? Would any existing Washington elected official take up the cause? They can't even repeal the comically silly shoe removal procedure (unless you're under 12 or over 75, because no terr'ist would ever foot kerplode those demographic stereotypes).

This is my questions as well, I think the TSA at this point is far more trouble than the massive budget the government is wasting on them. I've read countless articles and watched countless videos complaining about the TSA, pointing out their flaws. But I've yet to see a reasonable plan to cut their budget. And even if someone was able to lower their budget, what happens if something does happen then. I'd love to see…

No, actually the TSA is completely useless. Ask actual security experts like Bruce Schneider.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#242

Post by lutusp »

flyinRyan wrote: post #240
F_J_H wrote: post #108

The sad fact is, I think TSA type security is hear to stay, and won't lighten up very much, regardless of the facts that question its efficacy. Why? Picture this. Someone (likely a politician) crusades hard to have the TSA dismantled, and is successful. No matter how much better the system that replaces it is, there is always a chance that someone slips through and takes down a plane, and 300+ people are killed. In t…

Then you just stand up and point out that TSA never caught a single terrorist in its entire history so there's no reason to believe it would have handled this incident.

> Then you just stand up and point out that TSA never caught a single terrorist ...

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise -- you're using flawed logic. What would you think of an oncologist whose patients never contract serious, life-threatening cancer? Is he ordering unnecessary tests and procedures on people who aren't really sick, or is he catching all the cancers so early that they're never life-threatening?

See the point? I'm certainly not arguing one way or another about the TSA, just that your argument contains a very serious logical flaw. Maybe terrorists, knowing about the TSA, won't take the risk of going near an airport.

> ... so there's no reason to believe it would have handled this incident.

Flawed argument, flawed conclusion.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#243

Post by flyinRyan »

cleaver wrote: post #122
engtech wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you find that staggering, then absolutely avoid looking at Japan homicide stats. Japan is 0.4 per 100,000. Japan has had the strictest gun control in the world for the longest time, and has a homicide rate to match. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

Comparison between the USA and Canada is probably more meaningful. In recent times, Canadian gun laws have been stricter, but that was not always the case. There's something else behind the numbers. Universal healthcare? Cold weather? Who knows?

I would throw my dart at financial inequality. The further the upper class gets from the other classes, and the harder it is to go from the bottom class upwards, the more likely people are to step outside the seemingly rigged [1] system.

[1] If you're at the bottom rung and statistics say that you're about as likely to win the lottery as to get out, the system will almost certainly seem rigged to you even if it isn't.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#244

Post by flyinRyan »

gyardley wrote: post #91
grecy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting when Americans don't want America as a whole to be compared to other countries as a whole, because inevitably it makes for an unfavorable comparison. Of course looking at a country-wide statistic is an average across the whole country - that's the entire point. I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could find a part of Oregon where the homicide rate is 0.1, but that doesn't tell us much about th…

America has a single federal government, yes. If you just want a ranking, you can go ahead and use the national average. However, America is ridiculously diverse culturally, and just using the national average is useless for understanding anything about America. Perhaps the Americans in the thread aren't trying to avoid an unfavorable comparison - it's not like Americans aren't aware of the pros and cons of their own…

Very well, but next time you want to talk about the world's largest economy just keep this in mind.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#245

Post by flyinRyan »

smsm42 wrote: post #210
grecy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing I said was an argument, I was only stating my opinion. An opinion, it seems, that is not uncommon. http://blogs.reuters.com/bernddebusmann/2011/10/28/america-w... > Please leave your preconceptions at the door when having a serious discussion. Upon arriving in America in 2003, I had no preconceptions. I'm speaking from my experiences living and working in the country.

When talking about murder statistics, you can't be speaking from experience, can you? The truth is that there are some very nice places in America, and some not very nice places. In the nice places, statistics is good or better than a developed country, in the not nice places, statistics is worth - because these places are nothing like developed country. While they are inside the borders of the USA, their life is ver…

Developed countries don't normally have this kind of economic diversity. It's pretty common in developing nations though, with similar results.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#246

Post by flyinRyan »

freehunter wrote: post #195
grecy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is not unique in this regard, many other countries have vastly differing state laws too.

I'm not terribly familiar with states in different countries, but I wasn't trying to imply America is necessarily unique. What I was trying to get across is that, for all intents and purposes, each state in the union (read union as union of federated states) is semi-independent and can do almost anything they want outside of printing their own currency. Even that law comes with a stipulation that you can print your o…

So compare the US to the EU then. It still doesn't come out favorably for the US.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#247

Post by flyinRyan »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #83
anu_gupta wrote: post #13

Tangentially - the thing that most surprised me about this article was reading that over 150,000 Americans have been murdered in less than a decade. I find that number utterly staggering. Wikipedia says that the homicide rate in the US is 4.2 per 100,000, which is more than 2.5 times the rate in Canada and 3.5 times the rate in the UK.

Just something to keep in mind when comparing statistics between countries... The United States is approximately the size/population of Europe, and its individual states are approximately the size/population of European countries. It's always hard for the US to beat every state-sized country, just as there will always be US states with numbers above and below the overall average. The overall European average of 3.5 p…

So next time someone trots out the US being the largest economy on earth, I can use your same argument? We should be comparing all of Europe to the US since that's more realistic, right?

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#248

Post by flyinRyan »

cryptoz wrote: post #16
indiecore wrote: post #5

If you can avoid it* never travel through the united states. *Edit

That's excellent advice to those who live elsewhere, but there are hundreds of millions of people who cannot possibly follow your advice.

Most of those people have the power to vote this nightmare away though. If they won't then they're just getting what they wanted (if you think I'm being extreme, there are people in this very thread claiming this is necessary after all the evidence that's shown conclusively that it's useless).

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#249

Post by flyinRyan »

codex wrote: post #199

Before we checked luggage for bombs, bombers took down entire aircraft by checking in explosive laden bags. Before we checked passenger shoes, a bomber attempted to detonate theirs. If we relax our security, how do we ensure these things don't happen again?

>Before we checked luggage for bombs, bombers took down entire aircraft by checking in explosive laden bags

Not sure what you're talking about here. The reason 911 actually happened was because no one on the plane expected anymore more than a bit of inconvenience (flying to a different destination).

I'd say do nothing. There aren't enough people trying to do this sort of thing to make it worth the effort or expense. Especially since they have to die every time they do it.

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