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The Disappearance of the Public Bench

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Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#241

Post by avazhi »

squibonpig wrote: post #209
scoofy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think need trumps all duty to your fellow citizen. I do not. By suggesting need trumps everything, you are demonstrating why the benches have disappeared. If we live in a would where we accept that we allow some folks to disrupt complicated social programs, then those aspects of the social programs will disappear or the programs themselves will disappear. This is exactly what the essay describes as happen…

Glad you can enjoy homeless people's "duty" not to lay on a bench. Do you have a duty to give them food? I'm sure you're able to justify why you don't have a categorical imperative to help them.

Society would be better off without the homeless on average, objectively.

Why does society have an obligation to assist and protect people who don't contribute to society? If you feel some moral imperative to assist some druggie slobbering in his own shit then by all means you do do, but don't rope me into it. The only people with any obligation to assist are their families or those whose religions command them to do so. Neither involve me.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#242

Post by OutOfHere »

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #237
OutOfHere wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't claim that filtration wouldn't be required.

This made me go down a rabbit hole of techniques for separating sodium and chloride from urea/ammonium/ammonia solutions. I wonder if it could ever be made viable when compared to the Haber process for ammonia production. Also, phosphorus is the more scarce fertilizer, I think. I remember reading a paper from a Chinese lab that was trying to figure out how to cheaply isolate phosphorus fertilizer from commercial pig…

Filtration tchnology is evolving by virtue of nanotech evolving. What was cost prohibitive yesterday shouldn't necessarily remain so tomorrow. Someone does have to chase it though for it to get there.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#243

Post by cameldrv »

ryoshoe wrote: post #163
cameldrv wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very good friend who was an addict, and I tried to help him turn his life around in many ways, but I couldn’t figure out a way. Professionals told me “he has to hit rock bottom.” Anyhow he wound up getting arrested and spent a couple of weeks in jail where he got clean and decided to turn his life around. He went on to get a couple of masters degrees, get married, have two kids, and has a good job. He credit…

At the core of this is that your friend came to the realization that he wanted to change his life. He can credit his time in jail for this. However that doesn't mean it will be the same for everyone, or that there's only a single potential trigger to get someone to recover from drug addiction

If the jail is properly run (and I will admit that this is a big if), there aren't any drugs in the jail. Some people, if they get clean for a little while, are in a position to reflect on what they're doing. The indignity of being locked up also puts a very fine point on it.

Now I don't think that this would necessarily work for everyone, but it worked for my friend, and I've heard a number of other similar stories. Sometimes you need to get a very clear message from society/the system that your behavior is unacceptable, and you need to get that message sober or it may not get through.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#244

Post by cwmoore »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #230
Loughla wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to that question in a society that allows (mostly) autonomy of choice is that we let them die on the street. I'm not convinced that involuntary incarceration will actually fix the problem. I believe it will just take it off of the streets and out of the public consciousness.

> I'm not convinced that involuntary incarceration will actually fix the problem. Not to sound too crass, but doesn't that pretty much "fix the problem" (i.e. homeless people on the street) by definition?

Breathing problems? Stop the breathing. Solved, by definition.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#245

Post by cwmoore »

lobf wrote: post #185
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I think we need to bring back corporal punishment for specific crimes. The process to arrest, prosecute, and then imprison people for "public space crimes" is basically flawed. Arresting and prosecuting is slow and expensive, prisons are full. A prison sentence destroys whatever remaining support system a person has and a conviction like that makes getting a job in the future nearly impossible. We should jus…

Too bad about that pesky “cruel and unusual” clause in the constitution for the bloodthirsty like you…

Nothing unusual or cruel about living locked in a concrete box overcrowded with unemployable men for weeks, months, or years, or is there?

Prison is as medieval an institution as the mindsets of those that see it to be appropriate.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#246

Post by jaapz »

strictnein wrote: post #7
TheBlight wrote: post #3

I also like clean safe unobstructed sidewalks and parks but along with benches, we've made a decision. We've decided that putting the mentally ill in a facility and arresting people for public drug use is not something we're comfortable with at the expense of those other things. I don't personally ageee with this decision but it is apparently the consensus.

> it is apparently the consensus And what a strange consensus it is. The prevailing belief seems to be that preventing people from slowly/quickly killing themselves on the street (or, more accurately, dying from addiction) is somehow not "progressive" and the moral thing to do is to pretend like these people have made the choice of their own volition and that we cannot judge them for this choice. In reality, the peop…

When a drug addict does not have an internal drive to be rid of their addiction, forced treatment will not help.

Just putting them somewhere until the withdrawal symptoms fade will not change whatever drove them to use the drugs in the first place.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#247

Post by Rendello »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #156
0xBA5ED wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great solution, honestly. Long term drug abuse is almost never a victimless habit. I'm tempted to say never.

This isn't the 1980s anymore. Using drugs is perfectly fine. A ton of people here on HN take drugs regularly, but few think it's worth to rock the boat against this kind of nonsense you're spreading

> Crack?! I've got company!

> Oh, relax! "Oh, I'm Mark, I'm in the '80s, I'm dying of heroin in a puddle in the corner in an advert!" Drugs are fine, Mark, everyone agrees now. Drugs are what happen to people, and that's fine, so shut up.

https://youtu.be/yoZ1EGxPaOE?t=19

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#248

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

cwmoore wrote: post #244
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not convinced that involuntary incarceration will actually fix the problem. Not to sound too crass, but doesn't that pretty much "fix the problem" (i.e. homeless people on the street) by definition?

Breathing problems? Stop the breathing. Solved, by definition.

That is a completely irrelevant analogy. I wasn't advocating for the Soylent Green solution.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#249

Post by [deleted] »

ipaddr wrote: post #154
ratelimitsteve wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who picked up heroin in jail, came out an addict and died of an OD in his basement. His daughter found him. If your anecdote can prove your point, then mine can disprove it.

I think I know that family. Didn't the daughter get beat up everyday by that father and that's why he went to jail. Her life is so much better now.

[deleted]

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#250

Post by mannanj »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #6

This has little to do with the homeless and everything to do with a society that's shifted from seeking to facilitate positive things (e.g. the comfort of some random person on some random occasion) to one that wouldn't invent fire or sliced bread if it thought that doing so would be good for the wrong kind of people. This is intensified in spaces administrated by government due to the incentives of government and th…

why was the comment below this censored? didn't know people disliking things could flag content, I get it though if its a blatant slur, racist or harmful remark. but, feels off-putting to me because a couple weeks ago I shared a personal story about an experience with the CIA and rather than engage seriously it got downvoted and I was attacked Ad Hominem + straw manned by accounts.

I want to hope this is an inclusive supportive community and not one where tribal group-think wins.

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